<we don't need anyway for Vaishnava arcana a brahmin thread and the brahma gayatri mantra.>
Yes it's true.
so why do gaudiya vaisnavas who were born into brahmanas' families wear thread and recite brahma gayatri?
why don't they take the thread out? why don't they stop reciting the brahma gayatri?
if thread and brahma gayatri are unnecessary, why do these gaudiya vaisnavas born as brahmanas continue to use it just to show that they are more important?
"The most efficacious process in the present age is bhakti, which does not need upanayana saṁskāra. Bhakti is not dependent on any varṇāśrama saṁskāra. Bhakti and varṇāśrama are two distinct processes, although varṇāśrama can assist bhakti but is not necessary.
If, however, the purpose is to become a brāhmaṇa and perform brāhminical services, then it has to be thought over seriously.
There are two opinions about it.
There are some who say that anyone who has the qualification regardless of birth can be a brāhmaṇa. INDEED, THIS IS HOW IT WAS ORIGINALLY.
There are, however, others who are very orthodox and do not accept this principle and go only by birth.
Therefore, if someone really has the need, then one can find some qualified people belonging to the first category and undergo the ceremony.
There is no point in debating over it because neither one of these two parties will change their opinion."
(Satyanarayana Dasa Babaji)
it is a normal tradition in such families. tell him advaita prabhu performed all brahmin duties and rituals also after joining sankirtan movement.
<why do these gaudiya vaisnavas born as brahmanas continue to use it just to show that they are more important?>
and why do you put on a brahmin thread at all then, even though born a mleccha? also to look important?
when mahaprabhu give a brahmin thread to haridas thakur?
anarpita cari requires a brahmin thread?
lower than a blade of grass, yet also equal to a brahmin?
SB 1.1.2 says it is not for envious persons
Trinad api sunīcena
The shastra references you can read in my comments before
<why do these gaudiya vaisnavas born as brahmanas continue to use it just to show that they are more important?>
and why do you put on a brahmin thread at all then, even though born a mleccha? also to look important?>
That is exactly the point.
Not those born in Brahmanas families and neither the mlecchas need to use thread and Brahma Gayatri.
Both of them, only use it because they want to look important.
No Gaudiya Vaisnava should use thread and recite Brahma Gayatri. Neither those born in Brahmana families nor the mlecchas.
Do you were a thread by yourself or not?
My question is very simple. If thread and Brahma Gayatri are unnecessary in Gaudiya Vaisnava worship, why those born in Brahmanas families insist on using them?
But Sudras Vaishnavas initiated Brahmanas by birth.
When Sri Ganga Narayana Chakravarti, a renowned brahmana, took initiation from the "Sudra" Sri Narottama Dasa Thakura, the smarta brahmanas became outraged.
Did Acarya Srila Narottama Thakura commit a great offence by accepting as disciples Sripada Ganganarayana Cakravarti and Sripada Ramakrishna Bhattacarya, who were born in seminal brahmana families?
Srila Syamananda Gosvami, also "Sudra" initiated.
In the Gaudiya Vaishnava society, in the families of Srila Rasikananda Prabhu, Srila Raghunandana, Sri Hari Hoda, and others, performance of the twice-born samskara is still current.
This spiritual position of brahmanas, attained through spiritual initiation, has been accepted by intelligent people from time immemorial.
Sathakopa Dasa, the spiritual master of Sri Ramanujacarya, was born in the family of a sudra, he was a brahmana.
.............
It shows diksa is different from brahma gayatri which these brahmins already received from their fathers at age 11 the ones initiated by narottam,
a vaisnava saints answered this question -
if you can have dugdha samadhi you can also give diksa to brahmins
dugdha samadhi means narottam melted in the ganga like milk when he passed away.
Yes, the Sudra Vaisnava who is a Paramahamsa or a Sadhana Siddha is superior than a Vaisnava Brahmana who is not Paramahamsa or Sadhana Siddha.
Because the great truth is that for these racists not even a Sudra Paramahamsa Sadhana Siddha can initiate the Brahmanas.
It was a great pleasure to talk to a seminal brahmana. I have spoken to several and their racism is strongly incorporated.
Goodbye and Hare Krsna.
<these brahmins already received from their fathers at age 11>
Yes, they received the Brahma Gayatri at age 11 and then received Vaisnava Diksa (Gopala Mantra and Kama Gayatri) of "Sudra" Narottama Dasa Thakura.
And it was exactly what made the racist smartas very outraged.
In this same compilation it is explained:
"Śrī Viśvanātha Cakravartīpāda has elaborated further on this point to some degree, stating that since such sacrificial activities (soma yāga, recitation of Vedas, etc) are lower on the spiritual hierarchy than direct service to Kṛṣṇa, THEY ARE NOT TO BE TAKEN EVEN BY brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇavas."
<Advaita Prabhu who always followed all brahminical rituals>
Sri Advaita Prabhu followed these brahminical rituals out of social custom. But Brahmanas Vaisnavas do not need to follow them. This is explained by Śrī Viśvanātha Cakravartīpāda above.
My point remains.
If thread and Brahma Gayatri are unnecessary in Gaudiya Vaisnava worship, why those born in Brahmanas families insist on using them?
In this same compilation by Advaita Dasa he quotes Jaiva Dharma.
There it is explained that the limbs of bhakti are infinitely greater than soma yajñas, recitation of Veda, Brahma Gayatri, Sandhyavandanam, etc.
Seminal Brahmanas Vaisnavas do not need any of this. All of this, for a Gaudiya Vaisnava, is disposable and even useless.
Again.
If thread and Brahma Gayatri are unnecessary in Gaudiya Vaisnava worship, why those born in Brahmanas families insist on using them?
What's wrong with being a daiva-śūdra? None.
A daiva-śūdra has the same general qualities as all Daiva Varnasrama participants, which are:
"These are the general principles to be followed by all human beings:
truthfulness, mercy, austerity (observing fasts on certain days of the month), bathing twice a day, tolerance, discrimination between right and wrong, control of the mind, control of the senses, nonviolence, celibacy, charity, reading of scripture, simplicity, satisfaction, rendering service to saintly persons, gradually taking leave of unnecessary engagements, observing the futility of the unnecessary activities of human society, remaining silent and grave and avoiding unnecessary talk, considering whether one is the body or the soul, distributing food equally to all living entities (both men and animals), seeing every soul (especially in the human form) as a part of the Supreme Lord, hearing about the activities and instructions given by the Supreme Personality of Godhead (who is the shelter of the saintly persons), chanting about these activities and instructions, always remembering these activities and instructions, trying to render service, performing worship, offering obeisances, becoming a servant, becoming a friend, and surrendering one’s whole self.
O King Yudhiṣṭhira, these thirty qualifications must be acquired in the human form of life. Simply by acquiring these qualifications, one can satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead."
(ŚB 7.11.8-12)
The only detail is that if he/she are obliged to have her/his own business, or to manage a social community, or to act as the intellectual head of society, she/he will not be able to.
Daiva Sudra gets up early in the morning to go to Mangala Arati and chant the rounds and meditate on Sri Sri Radha Krsna.
Activities that are extremely superior to the recitation of the Vedas, Soma yajna, Sandhyavandanam, etc.
I'm not against NOT VAISNAVA born brahmins showing off their thread. We offer them all our respect.
What I am against is VAISNAVA born brahmins showing off their thread.
And I'm also against VAISNAVA mlecchas showing off their thread.
Gaudiya Vaisnavas, whether they are Brahmins by birth or mlecchas, do not need to use thread.
"Śrī Viśvanātha Cakravartīpāda has elaborated further on this point to some degree, stating that since such sacrificial activities (soma yajñas, recitation of Veda, Brahma Gayatri, Sandhyavandanam, etc) are lower on the spiritual hierarchy than direct service to Kṛṣṇa, THEY ARE NOT TO BE TAKEN EVEN BY brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇavas."
Well, at least in our daily meditation we are all Brāhmaṇas with thread.
Our Navadvipa-svarupa: – twelve year old kiśora brāhmaṇa boy.
Bright-complexioned, wearing white dhotī and upper-cloth, neatly combed thick hair, white dazzling sacred thread, fine tilaka, and always happy and smiling, since we are enjoying our sevā. We are absolutely in love with our Spiritual Master and Gaurāṅga. Our heart is bursting with sevā-joy.
So much discussion to conclude that we are all going to be born in the next life as a young Brāhmaṇa in Nitya Navadvīpa.
I know that those who belong to Advaita Parivāra, as it seems to be your case, have some reluctance to accept Nitya Navadvīpa because this would not be mentioned in the Gosvāmīs books.
However, how to refute the authority of a direct associate of Śrī Caitanya, such as Gopāla Guru Gosvāmī and his disciple Dhyānacandra Gosvāmī?
The Śrī Gaura-Govindārcana-Smaraṇa-Paddhati
by Śrīpāda Dhyānacandra Gosvāmī describes Nitya Navadvipa, Cintāmaṇi-maya Navadvīpa.
ato bahir gatvā maitra-kṛtyādi-vidhiṁ kuryāt, danta-dhāvanādim ācaret, śuddhāsane pūrvābhimukhī upaviśya niścala-manāḥ | smaret śrīmad gaura-candraṁ svardhunyā dakṣiṇe taṭe | cintāmaṇi-citta-dhāmni śrī-navadvīpa-nāmake || 9 ||
"Then, going outside, the sādhaka will pass urine and stool, and brush his teeth according to his regulation (or śāstra). After that he will sit on a purified seat facing the east and will meditate with a steady mind on Śrī Navadvīpa-dhāma. He will do līlā-smaraṇa of Śrī Gauracandra in cintāmaṇi-maya Navadvīpa, which lies on the southern bank of the Gaṅgā."
vaṁ bhūte śrī-navadvīpa-madhye manasi nivāsaṁ kṛtvā tatra || 15 ||
"Thus, in his mānasa-deha, the sādhaka should meditate on himself as a resident of Navadvīpa and an eternal associate of Śrī Gaurasundara."
śrī-guru-parama-guru-parātpara-guru-parameṣṭhi-guruṇām anugāmitvena śrīman mahāprabhor mandiraṁ gacchet. tatra tad-ājñayā śrī-navadvīpa-candrasya śayyotthānaṁ suvāsita-jalena śrī-mukhaprakṣālanādi-krameṇa sevāṁ kuryāt. tatra śrīman mahāprabhor dhyānaṁ yathā ūrddhvāmnāye (3.15)–dvi-bhujaṁ svarṇa-ruciraṁ varābhaya-karaṁ tathā | premāliṅgana-sambaddhaṁ gṛṇantaṁ hari-nāmakam || 16 ||
"Then, in his mānasa-deha, the sādhaka will follow his guru, paramaguru, parātpara-guru and parameṣṭhi-guru to the temple of Śrīman Mahāprabhu. By their order, he will awaken the Lord and offer Him scented water for washing His lotus face, etc., and do other sevā as is appropriate. Then he will meditate upon the Lord as described in the Ūrddhvāmnāya-Saṁhitā: Absorbed in prema, the golden Lord Gaura stands holding one hand in the benediction pose and the other in the pose for awarding fearlessness, while He incessantly chants the holy names."
tat-samīpe sevotsukam ātmānaṁ bhāvayed yathā–
divya-śrī-hari-mandirāḍhya-tilakaṁ kaṇṭhaṁ sumālānvitaṁvakṣaḥ śrī-hari-nāma-varṇa-subhagaṁ śrīkhaṇḍa-liptaṁ punaḥ | śuddhaṁ śubhra-navāmbaraṁ vimalatāṁ nityaṁ vahantīṁ tanuṁdhyāyec-chrī-guru-pāda-padma-nikaṭe sevotsukāṁ cātmanaḥ || 48 ||
"The sādhaka shall meditate on himself as wearing tilaka on his forehead, a fragrant garland around his neck, with beautiful holy names and prasādī-candana on his chest. On his body he always wears a fine, new white cloth. In this pure transcendental body he shall approach the lotus feet of his guru, very eager for service."
tatrādau śrī-guru-smaraṇaṁ yathā sanat-kumāra-saṁhitāyām–śaśāṅkāyuta-saṁkāśaṁ varābhaya-lasat-karam | śuklāmbara-dharaṁ divya-śukla-mālyānulepanam || 45 || prasanna-vadanaṁ śāntaṁ bhajanānanda-nirvṛtam | divya-rūpa-dharaṁ dhyāyet varadaṁ kamalekṣaṇam || 46 || rūpa-pūrva-guru-gaṇānugataṁ sevanotsukam | evaṁ rūpaṁ guruṁ dhyāyen manasā sādhakaḥ śuciḥ || 47 ||
"Before meditating on all the bhaktas, first guru-smaraṇa should be done as described in the Sanat-Kumāra-Saṁhitā: The guru is as radiant and cooling as 10,000 moons. His beautiful hands display the mudras of benediction and awarding fearlessness. He wears white cloth and is decorated with candana and a transcendental white garland. He has a very happy face, is peaceful and delights in his bhajana. He has a sac-cidānanda form, readily gives his blessings, and has lotus eyes. He is very handsome, with two arms and a golden complexion, and is radiant with youth (kaiśora). He very faithfully follows his guru-gaṇa, beginning with Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, and is very eager to serve the Lord. In this way, with a pure mind, the sādhaka shall meditate on his gurudeva."
vrndavana das thakur, visvanatha cakravarti, narottama das thakur and many others mention about nitya navadvipa.
yes, i don't expect you to accept this and it's okay.
I think it’s only Advaita Parivara who doesn’t accept this.
variety is the mother of pleasure.
fine.
the fact is that, with the exception of Advaita Parivara, all sadhakas meditate daily in their svaupa of a brahmana boy in nitya navadvipa.
Radhe Radhe
The subject is seminal Brahmanas and mlecchas, both GAUDIYA VAISNAVAS, do not need to use thread.
Bas !!!
we can say in another way.
or none of them use thread, or they all use.
social maryada and VAISNAVA maryada.
Keep waiting. I'm also waiting quotes from Gosvamis about Diksa Pranali.
"Who gave ekādaś bhāva to Jīva Gosvāmi and the other Gosvāmis for that matter? Nobody. Where is there any reference of ekādaś bhāva in the Gosvāmi literature (I do not mean siddha-deha, antah-cinti-deha or mānasī sevā)?"
(Satyanarayana Dasa Babaji)
they mention about nitya navadvipa.
but they didn't make a manual.
the manual (paddhati) was made by Dhyanacandra Gosvami.
and that's where this whole concept comes from.
where in the books and teachings of the gosvamis is mentioned siddha pranali diksa?
the fact is that the gosvamis in their teachings say nothing about siddha pranali diksa.
if it's such an important thing they should have mentioned it. something that is followed even by Advaita Parivara.
this whole concept also comes from Dhyanacandra Gosvami's paddhati.
But of course, Gopal Guru Gosvami and Dhyanacandra Gosvami are unimportant Acaryas
what are you saying.
of course, jiva gosvami is nitya siddha.
however, to set an example, gosvamis accept diksa. even sri caitanya accepts diksa. even krsna accepts diksa.
i am not against siddha pranali diksa. quite the opposite. it is a wonderful thing of Gaudiya Vaisnavism.
but it was not followed by the gosvamis. it's not in their writings.
siddha pranali diksa was followed by vrakesvara pandita, gopala guru gosvami, dhyanacandra gosvami.
later, as an innovation, siddha pranali diksa was adopted by the majority of Gaudiya Vaisnavas.
an innovation.
and I gave this example to show that innovations within a tradition happen and that everything is fine and they should be accepted and accommodated.
no one is forcing you to accept a 12 years old brahmana svarup. why are you making such a big deal of it.
but to say that the gosvamis followed siddha pranali is big statement if you cannot provide authorized shastras.
the link you posted talks about Narottama Das Thakura and Prema Vilasa.
This is not the Gosvamis.
About the quote from Jiva Gosvami. Yes, the Gosvamis talk about the Guru instructing the disciple about his Siddha Deha. But this has nothing to do with Siddha Pranali.
There is nothing in the Gosvamis' writings about Siddha Pranali. Zero.
This is only in Dhyanacandra Gosvami's Paddhati.
<you cannot just concoct an entire planet>
I am not the one to say this.
vrndavana das thakur, visvanatha cakravarti, narottama das thakur, vrakesvara pandita, gopal guru gosvami, dhyanacandra gosvami, sri ananta das babaji maharaja, etc, etc, etc ... etc ......... and many others mention about nitya navadvipa.
this is just not accepted by Advaita Parivara.
i am not the one who concot. what you are saying is that all these gaudiya vaisnavas concot.
very good
vaikuṇtha īśvar prabhu viśvambhar saba nabadvīpe nāce śvetadvīpa nām nabadvīpa grām bede prakāśiba pāche
"Lord Caitanya, who is the king of Vaikuṇtha, danced in all of Navadvīpa. The town of Navadvīpa is identical with Svetadvīpa. In the future the Vedas will reveal this truth."
(Vṛndāvana Dāsa Ṭhākura - Caitanya-bhāgavata 2.23.290)
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śrī-gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi, jebā jāne cintāmaṇi,
tāra hoy braja-bhūme bās
“One who knows the divine abode of Śrī Gauḍa-maṇḍala to be transcendental touchstone (Cintāmaṇi) is in truth a resident of Vrajabhūmi, Śrī Vṛndāvana."
(Narottama Dāsa Ṭhākura - Gaurāṅgera dūtī pada 3)
-----------------------------------------------------
Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura’s Śrī Gauranga-lilamrta.
------------------------------------------------------
"Those who deny the existence of a Nitya Navadvīpa in the spiritual domain support their claim on the basis that the Gosvāmīs never spoke about it, and they (Advaita Parivāra only) say that all evidence supporting Navadvīpa’s eternality refers only to its being manifested perpetually on Earth.
But as the Gosvāmīs apparently never explicitly spoke about a Nitya Navadvīpa in Vaikuṇṭha, they also never mentioned that Navadvīpa’s ascribed eternality is limited to the Bhauma-līlā (as Advaita Parivāra propose), which IS A MUCH FORCED IDEA than the natural conclusion coming from hearing about Navadvīpa’s being Nitya: that this abode has a permanent place in transcendence."
<identical with svetadvip is poetry>
it's your interpretation
<gauda mandala bhumi is bengal in the material world>
narottama says that sri gauda mandala is transcendental touchstone (cintamani)
cintamani is in the spiritual world
<Sri Gauranga lilamrta>
all of it
-------------------------------------------------------
“eternal navadvipa dhama is filled with prema-bhakti"
(narahari cakravarti’s bhakti-ratnakara 12.329–332)
-------------------------------------------------------
“Although the Vedas describe the Lord’s "appearance" and "disappearance" there is actually no end to His pastimes. Whenever a devotee meditates on a particular form of the Lord, the Lord appears in that form before the devotee. Thus Lord Caitanya performs these pastimes even today, and one who is fortunate can constantly see them.”
(Caitanya-bhagavata 2.23.510–511, 513)
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"What the Upaniṣads describe as the impersonal Brahman is but the effulgence of His (Śrī Caitanya) body, and the Supersoul is but His (from Śrī Caitanya) localized plenary portion. Lord Caitanya is the Supreme Person (Svayam Bhagavān), Kṛṣṇa Himself, (Lord Caitanya is) full of six opulences. He is the Absolute Truth, and no other truth is greater than or equal to Him."
(Kaviraja Gosvami CC Ādi 2.5)
-----------------------------------------------------------
sri krsna caitanya mahaprabhu is svayam bhagavam, the source of all incarnations.... He is a specific form of the lord... and does not have a specific abode in the spiritual world?
what logic is this?
just as all forms of the lord have a specific abode in the spiritual world, so does gaura lila. nitya navadvipa.
the gosvamis did not mention this explicitly because sri caitanya is a covert incarnation as a devotee.
aprakritam navadvipam cin-mayam cid-visesanam
jadatitam param dhāma brahma-puram sanātanam
vadanti śrutayaḥ sākṣād daharam sarva-sundaram
nava-sankhyas tathā dvīpa vartante padma-puspa-vat
"Navadvīpa is completely spiritual, with no material tinge, full of knowledge, beyond dull and inert matter, the topmost eternal transcendental abode, and an all-beautiful lotus flower. The nine islands of Navadvīpa are just like the parts of that great lotus flower."
(Urdhvamnaya-tantra - Śiva to Pārvatī)
--------------------------------------------------------
But if you (Advaita Parivāra) don't want to accept Nitya Navadvīpa that's fine.
We agree to disagree and it's ok.
--------------------------------------------------------
"Some learned devotees say that Navadvīpa is identical with the land of Vṛndāvana. Others say that Navadvīpa is actually the spiritual planet Goloka.
Some say that Navadvīpa is the planet Śvetadvīpa, and others say that Navadvīpa is actually the spiritual sky of Vaikuṇṭha. All glories to the wonderfully splendid land of Navadvīpa."
(Gaura Ganodesa Dipika 18 - Kavi Karṇapūra)
"Knowers of rasa, those who are greatly learned, say that the place called Vṛndāvana, which some people call Goloka, which others call Śvetadvīpa, and which others call the spiritual sky, is Navadvīpa, possessing the most astonishing greatness."
Text 19
tasmin vāsam urīcakāra nṛ-harir viśvambharākhyaṁ dadhāt tac-ceṣṭā-vaśataḥ samasta-mahatāṁ vāso’pi tatrābhavat | taiḥ sākaṁ mahatī harer anuguṇākārāpi līlābhavad yatrāsīj jagatāṁ mano’pi paramānandāya magnaṁ yataḥ ||19||
"The Lord accepted to live in that place and accepted the name Viśvambhara. Controlled by his actions, all his devotees lived there also. With them, the Lord performed great pastimes suitable to his form, because there the minds of all the people of the universe became absorbed in the highest bliss."
yad advaitaṁ brahmopaniṣadi tad apy asya tanu-bhā
ya ātmāntar-yāmī puruṣa iti so ’syāṁśa-vibhavaḥ
ṣaḍ-aiśvaryaiḥ pūrṇo ya iha bhagavān sa svayam ayaṁ na caitanyāt krṣṇāj jagati para-tattvaṁ param iha
"What the Upaniṣads describe as the impersonal Brahman is but the effulgence of His (Śrī Caitanya) body, and the Supersoul is but His (from Śrī Caitanya) localized plenary portion. Lord Caitanya is the Supreme Person (Svayam Bhagavān), Kṛṣṇa Himself, (Lord Caitanya is) full of six opulences (ṣaḍ-aiśvaryaiḥ pūrṇo). He is the Absolute Truth, and no other truth is greater than or equal to Him."
(Kaviraja Gosvami CC Ādi 2.5)
--------------------------------------------------------
ataeva caitanya gosāñi paratattva-sīmā
"Therefore Lord Caitanya is the Supreme Absolute Truth."
(Kaviraja Gosvami CC Ādi 2.110)
-------------------------------------------------------
i hope we agree that sri caitanya is svayam bhagavan and that krsna lila and gaura lila are eternal.
i think we are in agreement with this.
------------------------------------------------------
ggd 18 says that goloka vrndavana is navadvipa.
------------------------------------------------------
now, some will interpret that the eternity of gaura lila is only in this material world in different universes eternally and continuously.
others that the eternity of gaura lila also takes place in the spiritual world.
the gosvamis do not endorse either of these interpretations.
------------------------------------------------------
when i say advaita parivara, it's because only members of this parivara interpret it that way.
-------------------------------------------------------
"We should not see Krishna Lila transforming into Gaura Lila at some time in history. Both lilas are eternal and beginningless. They eternally run parallel with each other."
(Satyanarayana Dasa Babaji)
------------------------------------------------------
"Question: Rūpa-mañjarī is antaraṅga-śakti, what about Rūpa Gosvāmī and the other Gosvamis?
Answer: They are all antaraṅga śakti."
(Satyanarayana Dasa Babaji)
------------------------------------------------------
"Question: Is Lord Caitanya present in the spiritual world as well?
Answer: Certainly He is, because we only worship eternal persons, otherwise our worship would make no sense. In fact, He is present only in the spiritual world."
(Satyanarayana Dasa Babaji)
--------------------------------------------------------
"Question: In Chāndogya Upaniṣad, it is mentioned that a mukta jīva can expand into many bodies. How is this possible for the atomic (aṇu) jīva?
Answer: A siddha jīva can expand into more than one form if that is needed to perform service. This is why a sādhana-siddha bhakta can be simultaneously in Caitanya-līlā and in Kṛṣṇa–līlā in a male and female form respectively."
(Satyanarayana Dasa Babaji)
------------------------------------------------------
the conclusion i reach is that some interpret in one way and others in another. but everyone agrees that gaura lila is eternal.
"The sages say that Sri Navadvipa is to be meditated upon. This eternal Vrndavana shines on the bank of the Jahnavi Ganga."
(Bhakti-ratnakara 12.54)
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see, I follow the line of:
svarupa damodara - vakresvara pandita - gopala guru gosvami - dhyanacandra gosvami
who instruct through a paddhati to worship navadvipa and meditate on a svarupa in gaura lila.
if one does not trust this lineage, if one does not trust the instructions of direct associates of sri caitanya, what can we do.
we should follow our guru.
in the vakresvara pandita - gopala guru gosvami parivara the urdhvapundra is the lotus feet of gaura. tilaka without leaf. lord gauranga placed His foot on the head of gopala-guru gosvami to protect him.
gaura premanande hari haribol
radhe radhe
just as the material universe is created from five material elements, earth, water, fire, air, and ether, so the spiritual world is created from the spiritual element called cintamani, or cit potency.
cintamani is compared to a transcendental gem, and the entire spiritual world is composed of this gem-like cintamani element.
"When, manifesting a spiritual body, will I reside in Lord Gauranga's city, where all the moving and stationary living entities eternally shine with the splendor of intensely blissful spiritual forms, and which they, whose eyes are blinded by maya, misunderstand with a host of faulty ideas?"
(Navadvipa Sataka 29 - Prabhodananda Sarasvati)
"Above the material nature, in the ocean of happiness that is the Supreme Brahman splendor, is the Spiritual Sky, the Supreme Abode glorified in the Vedas. Within the Spiritual Sky the circle of Gauda-bhumi is glorious with all splendor. There gaze on the forest of Vrndavana."
(Navadvipa Sataka 57 - Prabhodananda Sarasvati)
"I meditate on wonderful Gaura-sthala splendid with gold, crystal, and rubies, with great sapphire trees, with courtyards made of many kinds of jewels, with buzzing bees, with blossoming vines, with wonderful parrots, peacocks, cuckoos, and other birds, and with
lakes filled with lotuses and other flowers."
(Navadvipa Sataka 64 - Prabhodananda Sarasvati)
"O beloved, when will I meditate on You in Gaura-sthala, which is filled with many pastime forest pavilions, delightful with many lakes and ponds, beautiful with trees, vines, and bushes everywhere and with many kinds of joyful birds and beasts, and is glorious with many splendid pastime-places?"
(Navadvipa Sataka 69 - Prabhodananda Sarasvati)
"When, as I wander in Navadvipa's forests, will I fall unconscious, suddenly seeing Lord Gaura chanting Hari! Rama! Hari! in a Kirtana in a sandy courtyard?"
(Navadvipa Sataka 76 - Prabhodananda Sarasvati)
"O Lord worshiped by Srivasa and Gadadhara, You are the goal of my life! You are the goal of my life!"
(Navadvipa Sataka 84 - Prabhodananda Sarasvati)
"When, wandering on the splendid Ganges' shore, will I suddenly see the peerless, splendid, blissful, eternal, spiritual, beautiful, rare home of Jagannatha Misra, Lord Sacisunu's abode?"
(Navadvipa Sataka 99 - Prabhodananda Sarasvati)
<cintamani is in the spiritual world - so bhauma vrindavan is what - earth or so?>
bhauma vrndavana is cintamani because there is an aprakata vrndavana.
likewise, bhauma navadvipa is cintamani because there is an aprakata navadvipa.
otherwise material earth is only material earth.
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in which part of the writings of the gosvamis it is said that Gaura-lila "travels like an intergalactic roadshow across the unlimited universes, performing Gaura-lila in so many Navadwipa-towns" ?
this is a theory.
you claim that nitya navadvipa is a theory, but claiming that the eternity of navadvipa is only in this material world is also a theory.
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<sidetracking again>
it is not. this is to show inconsistency.
you do not accept nitya navadvipa because it is not in the gosvamis books, but you accept siddha pranali diksa that is not in the gosvamis books.
complete inconsistency.
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navadvipa sataka
of course, we only accept writings that agree with our theory.
in this case your theory that the eternity of navadvipa occurs only in this material world.
<navadwip sataka is never quoted ever outside IGM>
bear in mind that you (advaita parivara) are alone in defending this theory.
here IGM and all parivaras are in agreement that there is nitya navadvipa.
you (advaita parivara) are the only one who has another theory.
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https://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/nitya-navadvipa-NAY615/
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"prakata-lila and aprakata-lila of Mahaprabhu are somewhat different in appearance; for example, Mahaprabhu only joins Svarupa and Ramananda during his years as a sannyasi, while in the aprakata-lila they are both present in youthful forms in Navadvipa-dhama."
(Pandita Sri Ananta Dasa Babaji)
Gaura Ganodesa Dipika 18
you gave the example that switzerland is like paradise. but it is not paradise. switzerland is on earth and paradise is in the spiritual world. correct.
but this example does not apply here.
navadvipa is like vrndavana because everyone there is absorbed in vraja bhava.
the context of the verse is about rasa and not about prakata or aprakata lila.
"Knowers of rasa, those who are greatly learned, say"
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Gaura Ganodesa Dipika 19
the context of this verse is specifically about bhauma navadvipa.
"All the people of the universe became absorbed in the highest bliss."
One last point.
<s.p. is a ritual elaboration on an existing theme of the goswamis and nitya navadwip is an entire world which is nowhere in the goswamis books - a massive difference>
All of the Vrndavana Gosvamis accepted the interpretation of the verse of the Srimad-Bhagavatam (11.5.32):
krsna-varnam tvisakrsnam sangopangastra parsadam yajnaih sankirtana-prayair yajanti hi su-medhasah
“In the Age of Kali, by performing sacrifices consisting mostly of congregational chanting, those who are intelligent worship a form of the Supreme Lord Who is Krsna Himself, although His complexion is not blackish, and Who constantly sings the names of Krsna. He is accompanied by His parts and parcels, divine ornaments, weapons and associates.”
to say that there is Nitya Navadvipa is also an elaboration on an existing theme of the gosvamis.
The gosvamis recognize Sri Caitanya as Krsna Himself.
And therefore being a form of Krsna, must also have an eternal spiritual abode.
