Spiritual sex

Hayasirsa Das

Interesting point !!!

In the spiritual world, do Vatsalya Rasa devotees (father and mother of Krsna) have relationship between them, since they are husband and wife ???

 

We may say that in relation to the spiritual world, all the inhabitants of Vaikuntha and Goloka has no other occupation but to satisfy the senses of Krsna and Visnu.

 

And so the only Rasa where there is sexual context is Madhurya Rasa and always only to satisfy Krsna.

 

Devotees in other Rasas not enjoy sexually between them.

 

"The inhabitants of Vaikuntha ... although ... crowned by their consorts cannot be stimulated to passion" (SB 3:15:20)

 

"Men are so absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness that the beautiful bodies of the women cannot attract them. In other words, there is enjoyment of the association of the opposite sex, but there is no sexual relationship. The residents of Vaikuṇṭha have a better standard of pleasure, so there is no need of sex pleasure." (SB 3:15:20)

 

"The inhabitants of Vaikuntha ... are pure devotees. They consider the glorification of the Lord, more important than his own sense gratification. In Vaikuntha planets there is no question of sense gratification ... The inhabitants of Vaikuntha give preference first to serving the Lord, not the gratification of their own senses. Serving the Lord in transcendental love yields such transcendental pleasure that, in comparison, sense gratification is counted as insignificant." (SB 3:15:17)

 

"In the spiritual world one has no desire other than to please the senses of the Supreme Personality of Godhead." (Cc. Madhya 19.155, purp.)

Then in the spiritual platform, the sexual connotation only exists in Madhurya Rasa and only to satisfy Krsna.

 

In Ujjvala Nilamani (2.6) of Srila Rupa Goswami, the Vita (associates of Krsna, which help in the dressing) are described as Kama-Tantra-kala-vedi. Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura confirms that they are experts in various Kama Tantra and Kama Sastra.

 

In Ksanada Giti Cintamani of Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, he speaks of Duti (Radha Gopi messengers) as ardent student of the Kama Sastra, which extract and teach nectaries Mantras from there for Sri Radha.

1 - Also just as Krsna has interchangeable senses, His associates in the spiritual world also has interchangeable senses.

And so, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur says in Madhurya Kadambini:
"The senses of the devotee acquire extraordinary, inconceivable, completely wonderful and fantastic ability to perform the functions of all the other senses."

 

"The eyes of Krsna can not only see, but also eat and produce children. In the Vedas it is said that He put His look at Maya and impregnated her with all living entities. Hence, although He has genitals, not necessarily He is required to use it for the same purpose we do."
Srila Prabhupada Letter to Madhusudana - London November 23, 1969

 

2 - This is an interesting idea that the devotees in the spiritual world has intimate relation between them to thereby satisfy Krsna. I like this idea. But our opinion is only our opinion. This is not in the Sastra. Especially in Bhakti Sastras. There is no Sastric description that Gopas and Gopis relate intimately between them.

And we already know. Guru Sadhu and Sastra. If what some Guru or Sadhu claims and we did not find it in the Sastra ......... We can say that it is possible, because anything is possible in the spiritual world, however, again, there is no Sastric description that Gopas and Gopis relate intimately between them.

 

Undoubtedly in Bhakti Sastras there is a description of the relationship between devotees in the spiritual world celebrating their love for Krsna and enjoying embracing and other joyful actions but there is no Sastric description that Gopas and Gopis relate intimately between them sexually.

If it were part of the scheme to satisfy Sri Krsna, then there would be some description of it. There are none. It is only our opinion.

 

The private affairs are all described in Bhakti Sastras:

"Vrnda to Kundalata: Now, Krsna very firmly presses Radharani to Him with His arms. She has become very wanton. He intently drinks the nectar of Her lips. She sighs deeply. He expertly celebrates the festival of conjugal love. She fills the forest grove with the inarticulate sounds of Her pleasure. In this way, the moon of Radha and Krsna's conjugal union expands." (UN)

 

By Jahnava Nitai Das

"Question: In Srimad Bhagavatam 5.17.12, Srila Prabhupada explains that people have sex in the spiritual world and there is no possibility of conception there. How is sex possible between different persons in the spiritual world and how can they be Krishna conscious at the same time?

The term sex is in reference to the sanskrit concept of rasa, the original spiritual relationships. In the material world this rasa is best reflected as mundane sex. But even in this there are many gradations according to the degrees of covering by the three modes. The Taittiriya Upanishad describes the degrees of enjoyment among the different human species, from the common man, to the gandharva, apsara, siddha, deva, devadeva, devendra, brahma, etc. Each being one hundred times greater or more complete than the previous.

As you go from lower species to higher species, what we refer to as sex exists in many different ways. It is the same for all the sensory activities. For example, our system of digestion is very gross. After we eat, the food is digested, and the waste is passed out. In the higher species such as gandharvas, the waste products are evaporated into the air automatically. There is no passing of waste. So the entire system of digestion is much more subtle, which is in tune with their own subtle existence. The activity of sex is similar. As you move up through the species it becomes more and more subtle, and less physical. For the gandharvas it involves mostly singing, for apsaras it involves mostly dancing. For higher devatas it involves mainly sight. When you come to the level of Lord Brahma, sex involves mainly the intellectual process. When you compare it to some of the lower species such as insects, they appear as completely different activities. For example after the praying mantis mates, the female eats off the head of the male. This is the same activity the gandharvas are performing by singing. The only difference is that the coverings of the the modes are so thick and heavy that it comes out in such a low aspect. Now if there is such a huge contrast even between material sex, then what to speak of the difference between material and spiritual sex. Ultimately sex is the transmission of a relationship. When we are covered by the modes, this relationship takes a lower physical nature. As you go through to higher species, the relationship becomes less and less physical, and more subtle. When you come to the spiritual platform, it no longer is a physical or mental activity, but a spiritual exchange of a relationship. This exchange of relationship on the spiritual platform is called rasa. Thus when Srila Prabhupada refers to sex between different living entities in the spiritual world, he is referring to an exchange of a spiritual relationship.

Srila Prabhupada mentions this in his purport to Srimad Bhagavatam 5.17.12:

"Another point in this verse is that in all eight of these heavenly varsas, although men and women enjoy sex pleasure, there is no pregnancy. Pregnancy takes place only in lower-grade life. For example, animals like dogs and hogs become pregnant twice a year, and each time they beget at least half a dozen offspring. Even lower species of life such as snakes give birth to hundreds of young at one time. This verse informs us that in grades of life higher than ours, pregnancy occurs once in a lifetime. People still have sex life, but there is no pregnancy. In the spiritual world, people are not very attracted to sex life, due to their exalted devotional attitude. Practically speaking, there is no sex life in the spiritual world, but even if sometimes it does occur, there is no pregnancy at all. On the planet earth, however, human beings do become pregnant, although the tendency is to avoid having children. In this sinful age of Kali, people have even taken to the process of killing the child in the womb. This is the most degraded practice; it can only perpetuate the miserable material conditions of those who perform it."

In the higher planetary systems conception occurs only once in the life, just prior to death. It is actually a great benefit for the female denizens of heaven, as they know when they are going to die.
For the males on the other hand it is quite sudden and shocking. Of course, due to their absorption in sense gratificatory activities, even the females may be taken by surprise. The descriptions of the death of the higher beings is described in detail in the scriptures. The heavenly dwellers will be enjoying with their consort, drinking the soma rasa (a heavenly intoxicant), without any idea what is about to occur. At the point when their punya (accumulated pious results) is finished they will suddenly fall from the heavenly realm (kshine punye martya-lokam vishanti). There will be nothing supporting them below their feet. As they fall through the ethereal space, they can still see the heavenly abode, and they see their consort has immediately taken another partner for enjoyment, as though they had never existed. As he falls through the space, he comes to an area which is frequented by many lower beings. These beings know the area where the celestial beings fall through, thus they wait there to eat them as they fall from their heavenly abodes. These lower beings begin to devour the living entities heavenly body as he falls towards the earthly abode. While being eaten alive, the heavenly being observes his previous realm, and sees his previous consort continuing to enjoy with other men. At this time, due to the intense pain in his heart, he begins to cry, and his soul leaves his body through his eyes within a tear drop. The tear drop falls to earth and mixes with the rain clouds. When the rain falls, the soul of the heavenly being lands on the earth and enters into a seed of grain. The grain grows and is latter eaten by a human. The soul of the heavenly being (along with his subtle covering) thus enters into the semen of a human and is latter born within the earthly abode.

In the Gita Krishna briefly describes this process:

te tam bhuktva svarga lokam vishalam
kshine punye martya-lokam vishanti

"After enjoying in the heavenly abode (svarga-loka), when their pious results are exhausted, they again enter the abode of death ."

Krishna's use of the word vishalam is significant, they do not just enjoy, as we enjoy. But their enjoyment is extremely vast. Their sense perception is hundreds of times greater than ours. When they smell a flower, or when they taste something, they are experiencing something completely different than what we are experiencing through our senses. It is like someone having a cold and a stuffy nose trying to smell a flower. They will not experience the flower. We are similar when compared to the higher heavenly beings. We are not actually experiencing matter in its true state. We have no idea of how something smells, tastes, or feels. This is what is described in the Taittiriya Upanishad. And as you go up to even higher beings, the case is the same for them, until you finally come to Lord Brahma, the engineer of the material universe. Only Lord Brahma can experience matter in its true fullness. Only he knows what a flower actually smells like, or what taste, touch and sight actually are. What then to speak of sense perception beyond matter. Spiritual sense enjoyment, cannot be understood by anyone within this material world. Even material sense enjoyment cannot be understood, it is practically limitless, yet higher, much higher, is the spiritual sense perception. Thus Krishna describes it as su-sukham kartum avyayam. By using the prefix "su" Krishna is stating that it belongs to an entirely different category from the ordinary happiness of this world.

In the purport Srila Prabhupada mentions the various grades of enjoyment, from the snake up to the demigods. When you compare the enjoyment of the demigod with that of the snake, they have very few similarities, what to speak of the spiritual enjoyment in Vaikuntha. We can not compare it even to the highest activities within this world, even though it may be described in similar words. As far as pregnancy not occurring within the spiritual realm, this is an obvious fact, as there is no birth nor death. Pregnancy is a process of the cycle of birth and death. In the Gita Krishna explains that whatever has a beginning in time will also have an end. Thus whatever is born is sure to die. I would not put too much importance on this statement in trying to understand what is this spiritual sex being referred to, as it is just a general fact, and not a particular description. The "sex" that occurs between two living entities within the spiritual realm is simply an exchange of a direct loving relationship between the two due to each others appreciation for the others service to Krishna. It has no connection with the concept of sex as found within the mundane realm."

 

"In the material world, if one is sexually inclined and enjoys sex life, he enjoys something temporary. His enjoyment vanishes after a few minutes. However, in the spiritual world the same enjoyment may be there, but it never vanishes. It is continuously enjoyed. In the spiritual world such sex pleasure appears to the enjoyer to be more and more relishable with each new feature. In the material world, however, sex enjoyment becomes distasteful after a few minutes only, and it is never permanent."
CC Madhya 8.138, Translation and Purport

Therefore, in the spiritual world there is a continuous spiritual orgasm and increases more and more.

 

Then is there sexual activity in the spiritual world?

 

Sure.

 

Not exactly how in this material world, OR yes. Not necessarily having contact between the genitals. OR yes.

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur says in Madhurya Kadambini:
"The senses of the devotee acquire extraordinary, inconceivable, completely wonderful and fantastic ability to perform the functions of all the other senses."

 

It is a constant and increasing pleasure.

 

That's why with this material body we could not enter the spiritual world because we could not stand so much pleasure.

 

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura explains in Madhurya Kadambini:
"Sneha, Pranaya, Mana, Raga, Anuraga and Mahabhava successively specialized tastes, are progressively higher fruit of the creeper of Bhakti. Because the material body of the devotee can not tolerate the extreme friction of all these tastes, they do not manifest in his body. Thus, these states are not described here. "

 

This is the pleasure of serving Krsna with extreme love.

 

True. Devotees confuse Rasa with meaning only sex. When it is not.

However, considering that in the spiritual world the spiritual body is constituted with genitals, it is still possible to have a sexual relationship, we may say, only by looking another one for example.

 

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakur says in Madhurya Kadambini:
"The senses of the devotee acquire extraordinary, inconceivable, completely wonderful and fantastic ability to perform the functions of all the other senses."

 

Why not?

 

Man, they have sex with their eyes or ears.

 

And of course, sex in spiritual world means serving Krsna with extreme love.

 

"But the descriptions in the lila books and Ujjvala-nilamani indicate otherwise. There are a number of different types of "union" described in UN, culminating in full conjugal union."

 

Yes, but this is in relation to Krishna and the Gopis. But there is no such description in Bhakti Sastras, the intimate relationship between Gopas and Gopis.

 

Devotee: “That statement was in relation to Krishna and the gopis. There is no other type of conjugal union mentioned in Ujjvala Nilamani (UN) which is specifically about madhurya rasa between Krsna and the gopis.

That book also mentions the prema the inhabitants have for each other, especially for Radha, and how for a certain section of the gopis, the manjaris, they don't want direct contact with Krsna at all, as they relish directly Radha's union with Krsna, and their happiness is solely in that. So even conjugal rasa does not necessarily mean union- of oneself with Krsna.

Since there is no mention of prema between husbands and wives culminating in some kind of spiritual sex, it doesn't make sense to speculate on it. It certainly is not important for us to know, or it would have been discussed in the bhakti sastra. The important thing for us souls rotting in the material world is to develop love for Krsna in one of the four rasas, after gradually becoming attracted to one rasa in particular.

 

This thread started with the aim of establishing the importance of loving platonic exchanges between sadhakas, not sex between sadhyas. Again, the only reference is that the gopis don't have conjugal relations with their husbands. As for those in the other rasa, if they do have it, maybe they would like it kept private? As we all do? And if they don't have it, then we are discussing what does not exist, which is a waste of time. SP says it is not important for them. Following in the footsteps of the Vraja inhabitants, it should not be important for us.”

 

O ponto é que no mundo espiritual Krsna é o CENTRO, de tudo, sempre, CONSTANTEMENTE. 24 horas por dia (lá existe um eterno presente). Os devotos lá não esquecem de Krsna nem mesmo por um pequeno momento.  Será possível que lá as Gopis e Gopas em vatsalya Rasa por exemplo tenham contacto sexual íntimo entre eles e não se esqueçam de Krsna durante este acto sexual que o fazem como uma forma de dar carinho a outro devoto e para satisfazer a Krsna ??? Como as Gopis que tem contacto com Krsna. Não o fazem para o seu próprio prazer. Mas para dar prazer a Krsna. Mas creio que Krsna já ficará imensamente seguro, feliz e satisfeito de ver Seus pais abraçarem-se. Krsna não vai bisbilhotar a vida íntima dos Seus pais.