CONDICIONAMIENTO DE LA JIVA POR MADHVACARYA Y RAMANUJACARYA
a) Según Madhvacarya, las almas existen desde la eternidad en el caos de un medio ambiente material bajo la supervision de Dios. En la conclusion de cada mahapralaya, El les trae al frente de la creacion. El no tiene proposito en hacerlo, salvo de ayudar a las almas hasta el agotamiento através del disfrute (bhoga) y pesada carga del karma y vasanas. La creacion es, entonces, requisito indispensable para la maduracion del karma individual y el pleno desarrollo de cada alma.
b) La creacion no tiene comienzo en el tiempo, pero en todo para el placer del Señor Supremo. El es la ultima causa de su condicionamiento - no en el sentido de que El los puso en este en cierto punto de su historia, sino que su continua asociacion con ellos es, de toda forma, sujeto a El y su libertad dependera de Su gracia y cooperacion. La terminacion de este enredo solo puede ser lograda por la gracia de Dios ganada a traves de sadhanas. Tal es la esencia del punto de vista de Madhva de la realidad y de la terminabilidad del condicionamiento.
c) Puede parecer, sin duda, una cosa despotica de Dios envolver a las almas en una maya sin comienzo o interminable, pero es un mal necesario en el esquema del universo. La asociacion con la naturaleza material es un paso necesario en la evolucion espiritual de las almas y por lo tanto es permitida por Dios. Es una experiencia dolorosa a traves de la cual cada uno de ellos tiene que pasar antes de lograr su plena estatura - cualquiera que sea. Es el deseo del Todo Poderoso que las almas se realicen a si mismas solo de esta manera y no de otra. Y no hay cuestionamiento en Su deseo, ya que El es satya-sankalpa.
d) Solo es el verdadero conocimiento de la relacion de las almas con Dios que puede redimirla de esta atadura o condicionamiento. La explicacion verdadera y final del condicionamiento es, entonces, el 'deseo del Señor', y no meramente karma, ajnana, kala, gunas, etc. Madhva ha ido mas alla de Ramanuja en trazar el origen del condicionamiento ultimamente en el deseo Divino.
e) Madhvacarya llama a su explicaciom del origen del condicionamiento svabhava-ajnana-vada o la explicacion de la ignorancia del alma de su propia verdadera naturaleza y de su dependencia sobre el Supremo Brahman (para brahman personal).
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Y krsna al tener asociados intimos y eternos productos de Su potencia interna y tener otras jivas que NO son producto de Su potencia interna, lo llamarias krsna despotico de la misma forma. LO QUE PASA ES QUE CON NUESTRO EGO FALSO DEL TAMANO DE ESPANA NO ADMITIMOS QUE KRSNA HACE LO QUE LE DA LA GANA.
15/2 às 21:39 · Gosto · 2
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha no ponemos en nuestras tercuzas cabezas de QUE QUIEN MANDA ES KRSNA. con un ego falso del tamano del brasil QUEREMOS DECIR A KRSNA COMO EL TIENE QUE HACER LAS COSAS.
15/2 às 21:41 · Gosto · 2
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha JAJAJAJAJA
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha Es que madhvacarya y ramanujacarya nunca han leido la biblia y el cuento de adan y eva pa refinar sus conclusiones JAJAJAJAJA
15/2 às 21:55 · Gosto · 1
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha "In further reference to your question about the form of the spirit soul of the conditioned living entity: there is a spiritual form always, but it develops fully only when the living entity goes to Vaikuntha. This form develops according to the desire of the living entity. Until this perfectional stage is reached, the form is lying dormant as the form of the tree is lying dormant in the seed."
(Srila Prabhupada - Letter to Rupanuga, 8 August, 1969)
Ramanuja state in his Sri Bhasya commentary on Vedanta-sutra 4.4.2:
“Being liberated from the connection with karma and from the body, etc., created by it, [the liberated soul] is situated with a form that is of his own nature. Here is stated [from Chandogya Upanisad 8.12.2]:
“‘With his own form, he attains...’
“Here ‘attainment’ is stated. And so there is cessation of the concealment of the svarüpa, which, even though eternally present, was concealed by ignorance in the form of karma.”
Ramanujacarya comments Vedanta-sutra 4.4.2 in his Vedanta-sara (“essence of Vedanta”):
“It is said here that although the precise form of the soul’s constitutional form was in fact previously known and existed in perfection, still (at the time of liberation) there is the appearance of that constitutional form, with unlimited knowledge, freed from the bondage of karma.”
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POR SUPUESTO QUE LA JIVA ES PARTE DE LA POTENCIA INTERNA. KRSNA ES LA ORIGEN DE TODO. MAS EXISTEN DISTINTAS CATEGORIAS.
ZIMMER Y ADAN, USTEDES NO ESTAN EN LA MISMA CATEGORIA DE NANDA, YASODA, LALITA, VISAKHA, SUBALA, PATRAKA, ETC.
ELLOS SON ASOCIADOS INTIMOS Y ETERNOS DE KRSNA. NOSOTROS NO SOMOS.
NO HABLEN TONTERIAS. -
Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha USTEDES DESDE EL MISMO PRINCIPIO HAN PERDIDO. CONFUNDEN LOS ASOCIADOS ETERNOS Y INTIMOS DE KRSNA CON LAS JIVAS COMUNES.
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha Por supuesto krsna no es despotico. Eso solo lumbreras lo dicen. En este sentido lo dice Luis.
16/2 às 12:03 · Editado · Gosto · 1
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha Krsna nunca abandona la jiva. Esta siempre con ella. Paramatma, sastras, sadhus, guru, dhama, el maha mantra. MAS ALGUNOS TERCUZOS CONSIDERARIAN krsna despotico por la jiva no haber tenido una relacion desarrollada con krsna.
16/2 às 11:54 · Gosto · 1
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha Asi como otros CABEZONES considerarian krsna despotico por haber sus asociados intimos y eternos y las jivas comunes.
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha MAS KRSNA NUNCA ES DESPOTICO, PORQUE AUN QUE EXISTAN DISTINTAS CATEGORIAS DE ENTIDADES VIVIENTES, KRNSNA JAMAS ABANDONA LA JIVA COMUN Y ESTA SEMPRE AHI PARA AYUDARLA Y ORIENTARLA.
16/2 às 11:58 · Gosto · 2
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha zimmer y adan dejen de decir estupideces Y VAYAN A LEER TODOS LOS LIBROS DE PRABHUPADA, EN ESPECIAL EL CC. o entonces no lean nada. Me da igual.
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha Zimmer o entonces vete al infierno de DANTE.
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha When Kṛṣṇa descends anywhere, He is accompanied by His own associates. These associates are not ordinary living beings. Kṛṣṇa's pastimes are eternal, and when He descends, He comes with His associates. Therefore Nanda and mother Yaśodā are the eternal father and mother of Kṛṣṇa.
SB 10.8.48, Purport16/2 às 12:51 · Gosto · 1
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha Mas claro, krsna es despotico porque no tubimos una relacion desarrollada con el o porque el tiene sus asociados intimos y eternos que no somos nosotros JAJAJAJAJAJA
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha MAS KRSNA NUNCA ES DESPOTICO. Aun que no tubimos una relacion desarrollada o que el tenga sus asociados intimos y eternos QUE NO SOMOS NOSOTROS, el esta siempre al lado de la jiva para ayudarla y orientarla. SIEMPRE.
16/2 às 12:57 · Gosto · 1
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha Krsna, la suprema PERSONALIDAD de Dios es MARAVILLOSO !!!
16/2 às 12:58 · Gosto · 1
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha y madhvacarya y ramanujacarya son IMPERSONALISTAS Y SENTIMENTALISTAS
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha JAJAJAJAJAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
16/2 às 12:59 · Gosto · 1
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha adan, ya consigues explicar las citaciones de prabhupada que la jiva no cae?
16/2 às 13:04 · Gosto · 1
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha CC Ādi 4.65
mātā, pitā, sthāna, gṛha, śayyāsana āra
e-saba kṛṣṇera śuddha-sattvera vikāra
"La madre de Kṛṣṇa, Su padre, Su morada, Su casa, Su cama, Sus asientos y demás, son, todos ellos, transformaciones de śuddha-sattva."
"En el reino de Dios, los sirvientes y las sirvientas del Señor, Sus consortes, Su padre y Su madre y todo lo demás son transformaciones de la existencia espiritual de sandhinī-śakti (Balarama)." (CC Ādi 4.65)
CC Ādi 2.101 — «La cit-śakti, también llamada svarūpa-śakti o antaraṅga-śakti, presenta muchas manifestaciones diversas. Sostiene el reino de Dios y sus enseres."16/2 às 13:21 · Gosto · 1
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha Lecture on BG 6.46-47 -- Los Angeles, February 21, 1969:
Devotee: You mentioned that the gopas, Kṛṣṇa's friends, are playing with Him and they are said to have done very much pious deeds in their past lives. I understand that they are eternal a...Ver mais16/2 às 13:22 · Gosto · 1
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha It is not possible for a sādhana-siddha living being to become the father or mother of Kṛṣṇa, for Kṛṣṇa's father and mother are already designated.
SB 10.8.49, Translation and Purport -
Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha As stated before, first the father and mother of Kṛṣṇa appear, then the other associates. Quitting his material body, the perfect devotee also goes to associate with Kṛṣṇa and His other associates.
CC Madhya 20.397, Purport -
Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha Some of the gopas are eternal associates, some of them are promoted to that eternal association.
Lecture on BG 6.46-47 -- Los Angeles, February 21, 196916/2 às 13:29 · Gosto · 1
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha That is called rāga-bhakti. Kṛṣṇa's personal associates. Not to become directly Kṛṣṇa's personal associate, but following the footprints of Kṛṣṇa's eternal associates, we can come to the stage of rāga-bhakti. That is called parā-bhakti.
Lecture on SB 3.26.35-36 -- Bombay, January 12, 1975 -
Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha When Krishna appears some of his eternal associates come with Him to assist Him in His different incarnational activities, and some of the living entities from conditioned life are liberated by following the footprint of Lord Krishna and His bona associates; so all the six goswamis became eternal associates of Krishna.
Letter to Jadurani -- Vrindaban 9 September, 196716/2 às 13:31 · Gosto · 1
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha The devotee in this material world who executes loving service in pursuance of the activities of those eternal associates with Kṛṣṇa also attains the same post when he is perfected.
Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Chapter 31 -
Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha One in this pure state of devotional service gradually develops the desire to follow in the footsteps of an eternal associate of Kṛṣṇa.
Nectar of Devotion 3216/2 às 13:36 · Gosto · 1
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha At the stage of rāga-bhakti, or devotional service in spontaneous love the devotee can follow in the footsteps of one of the eternal associates of Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana.
Nectar of Instruction 8, Purport -
Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha When Kṛṣṇa exhibits His transcendental pastimes within the material world in some of the universes, not only the eternal associates of Kṛṣṇa come but also those who are being promoted to that status from this material world.
Krsna Book 29 -
Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha Although the nitya-siddha expansions of Kṛṣṇa always remain with Kṛṣṇa, if those engaged in sādhana-siddhi follow in the footsteps of Kṛṣṇa's nitya-siddha associates, such sādhana-siddhas also can easily attain Kṛṣṇa without difficulty
SB 10.9.21, Purport16/2 às 13:38 · Gosto · 1
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha The process of transcendental realization is to follow in the footsteps of the associates of the Supreme Lord; therefore if one thinks himself to be a direct associate of the Supreme Lord, he is condemned
Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Chapter 31 -
Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha Rāga-bhakti is executed following the footprints of the devotees in Vṛndāvana. That is called rāga-bhakti. Kṛṣṇa's personal associates. Not to become directly Kṛṣṇa's personal associate, but following the footprints of Kṛṣṇa's eternal associates, we can come to the stage of rāga-bhakti
Lecture on SB 3.26.35-36 -- Bombay, January 12, 1975 -
Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha Lecture on BG 6.46-47 -- Los Angeles, February 21, 1969:
Devotee: You mentioned that the gopas, Kṛṣṇa's friends, are playing with Him and they are said to have done very much pious deeds in their past lives. I understand that they are eternal associates...
Prabhupāda: No, some of them are eternal associates, some of them are promoted to that eternal association. Suppose if you go and become an associate, playmate of Kṛṣṇa. So your position also becomes, now, eternal. If simply the eternal associates of Kṛṣṇa can play with Him, not others, then what is the meaning of your becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious? You can become also. How? By pious deeds of many, many lives. You can also become promoted to that position. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ (SB 10.12.11). Actually in the bhauma Vṛndāvana in this material world, the Vṛndāvana, mostly the associates of Kṛṣṇa are these conditioned living entities who are promoted to that Kṛṣṇa conscious perfectional stage. They are first of all allowed to see Kṛṣṇa in the planet where Kṛṣṇa's pastimes is going on. And then they are promoted to the transcendental Vṛndāvana. Therefore it is said in the Bhāgavata: kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. They are all promoted. But even they are promoted, they are now eternal associates. Is it clear? Hare Kṛṣṇa. So? Any other question?16/2 às 13:40 · Gosto · 1
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha There is some action of the internal potency of the Lord in the exchange of feelings between Him and His eternal associates.
SB 1.11.39, Purport -
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Vāsudeva is the original Personality of Godhead Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa. As explained before, the original Personality of Godhead expands Himself by innumerable forms. Such expansion of forms is made possible by His various energies. His energies are also multifarious, and His internal energies are superior and external energies inferior in quality. They are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā (7.4-6) as the parā and the aparā prakṛtis. So His expansions of various forms which take place via the internal energies are superior forms, whereas the expansions which take place via the external energies are inferior forms. The living entities are also His expansions. The living entities who are expanded by His internal potency are eternally liberated persons, whereas those who are expanded in terms of the material energies are eternally conditioned souls.
SB 1.2.28-29, Translation and Purport -
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y aqui el significado completo del sb 2.10.3
Significado:
Con el fin de explicar las diez divisiones características del Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, existen siete versos continuos. El primer de esos versos a que se ha hecho referencia, trata de las dieciséis manifestaciones elementales, constituidas por la tierra, el agua, etc., con el ego material compuesto de inteligencia y mente materiales. La creación subsiguiente es un resultado de las reacciones de las dieciséis energías antedichas del primer puruṣa, la encarnación Mahā-Viṣṇu de Govinda, como lo explicará más adelante Brahmā en su tratado Brahma-saṁhitā (5.47), de la siguiente manera:
yaḥ kāraṇārṇava-jale bhajati sma yoga-
nidrām ananta-jagad-aṇḍa-sa-roma-kūpaḥ
ādhāra-śaktim avalambya parāṁ sva-mūrtiṁ
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
La primera encarnación puruṣa de Govinda, el Señor Kṛṣṇa, conocida como el Mahā-Viṣṇu, entra en un sueño místico yoga-nidrā, y los innumerables universos se encuentran en potencia en todos y cada uno de los agujeros capilares de Su cuerpo trascendental.
Como se mencionó en el verso anterior, śrutena (o haciendo referencia a las conclusiones védicas), la Suprema Personalidad de Dios, directamente hace posible la creación mediante la manifestación de Sus energías específicas. Sin esa referencia védica, la creación parece ser producto de la naturaleza material. Esta conclusión es fruto de un escaso acopio de conocimiento. Del estudio de las referencias védicas se concluye que, el origen de todas las energías (es decir, la interna, la externa y la marginal) es la Suprema Personalidad de Dios. Y, como se explicó anteriormente, la conclusión ilusoria es la que dice que la creación la hace la inerte naturaleza material. La conclusión védica es luz trascendental, mientras que la conclusión no védica es oscuridad material. La potencia interna del Señor Supremo es idéntica al Señor Supremo, y la potencia externa se anima al ponerse en contacto con la potencia interna. Las partes integrales de la potencia interna que reaccionan al ponerse en contacto con la potencia externa, se denominan potencia marginal, o entidades vivientes.
Así pues, la creación original proviene directamente de la Suprema Personalidad de Dios, o Paraṁ Brahman, y la creación secundaria, como resultado de la reacción de los ingredientes originales, la hace Brahmā. En esa forma se inician las actividades del universo entero.16/2 às 21:50 · Gosto · 1
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha las partes integrales de la potencia interna que reaccionan al ponerse en contacto con la potencia externa, se denominan potencia marginal, o entidades vivientes.
y las partes integrales de la potencia interna que NO reaccionan con la potencia externa, se denominan los asociados eternos de krsna
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CC Madhya 24.287
dui-vidha bhakta haya cāri cāri prakāra
pāriṣada, sādhana-siddha, sādhaka-gaṇa āra
"The ātmārāmas engaged in regulative and spontaneous devotional service are further categorized into four groups. There are the eternal associates, the associates who have become perfect by devotional service, and those who are engaged in devotional service and are called sādhaka.16/2 às 22:22 · Editado · Gosto · 1
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha pāriṣada = the eternal associates
diferentes categorias
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el infierno de madhvacarya no tiene nada que ver con el tema. hay otros puntos que los acaryas tienen distintas posiciones acerca del jiva tattva, MAS TODOS ESTAN UNANIMEMENTE Y OLIMPICAMENTE DE ACUERDO QUE LA JIVA NO CAE.
mas no, claro, madhvacarya y ramanujacarya porque afirman que la jiva no cae es que son impersonalistas y sentimentalistas
JAJAJAJAJA
ten cuidado, ten mucho cuidado en llamar estos acaryas de esta manera.
ustedes llaman a gaura govinda, sridhar swami, etc de la gaudiya matha eso y aquello. mas cuidado al llamar estos acaryas como madhva y ramanuja asi. CUIDADITO !!!Ontem às 10:49 · Editado · Gosto · 1
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha OJO !!!
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<Eso lo explica Srila Prabhupada claramente en sus significados>
en ningun de los significados de sus libros srila prabhupada explica eso.
hay que estudiar más adan.
<los nitya siddhas tienen la posibilidad de utilizar mal su libre albedrio y venir al mundo material.>
deja de decir tonterias, estupideces de una punetera vez.
yasoda, nanda, patraka, raktaka, lalita, visakha, subala, etc, nitya siddhas ETERNOS ASOCIADOS del senor nunca mal utilizan su libre albedrio.
la unica manera de apoyar esta LOCURA de que la jiva cae es afirmando que los nitya siddhas asociados eternos y intimos del senor pueden caer. -
Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha ADAN, ya consigues explicar las citaciones de prabhupada que la jiva no cae?
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha si no vas a explicar estas citaciones no continues a decir bobadas
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha zimmer deja de llamar a krsna de sadico de una punetera vez. krsna nunca es sadico. esta siempre con la jiva para ayudarla y orientarla. con el maha mantra, sastras, sadhus, guru, dhama, deidades, caitya guru, etc.
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha We cannot resolve this issue by limiting our study to Srila Prabhupada’s statements only, while ignoring the statements of the acaryas. Any authoritative analysis must include the entire body of Gaudiya Vaisnava literature. Therefore, those who assert the fall theory must explain all of the statements from the acaryas to prove that they confirm their theory.
According to the parampara protocol, we are obligated to defer to the collective, unified consensus presented by all of the previous acaryas, and resolve Srila Prabhupada’s statements according to their conclusions. Twisting Srila Prabhupada’s statements to force them to prove that the jivas fell from Krsna, against an overwhelming abundance of contrary evidence is a
futile exercise.
What is the purpose of trying to prove that Srila Prabhupada said something so contradictory to the previous acaryas? Their numerous statements are clear and indisputable, and there is not one single statement that supports the “fall from the lila” side of this debate. To maintain and promote that Srila Prabhupada established this false concept is not loyalty to Srila Prabhupada, it is guru-aparadha because it is a serious distortion of his statements and Vaisnava siddhanta. It reveals a complete lack of understanding of this crucial philosophical subject. It should be rejected by all of his disciples and followers. -
Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha "A pure living entity in his original spiritual existence is fully conscious of his constitutional position as an eternal servitor of the Lord. All souls who are situated in such pure consciousness are liberated, and therefore they eternally live in bliss and knowledge in the various Vaikuntha planets in the spiritual sky. When the material creation is manifested, IT IS NOT MEANT FOR THEM. The eternally liberated souls are called nitya-muktas, and they have nothing to do with the material creation." (Bhag. 3.5.29, purport)
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<Pero la situación Normal es estar haciendo servicio al Señor Supremo, esa es su svarupa.>
"In further reference to your question about the form of the spirit soul of the conditioned living entity: there is a spiritual form always, but it develops fully only when the living entity goes to Vaikuntha. This form develops according to the desire of the living entity. Until this perfectional stage is reached, the form is lying dormant as the form of the tree is lying dormant in the seed."
(Srila Prabhupada - Letter to Rupanuga, 8 August, 1969) -
Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha Claro que es REGRESAR. Krsna es la origen de todo y todos.
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Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha Where are the statements or stories that describe your mother, father and friends welcoming you back to Goloka, and asking where have you been and why did you leave? There are none anywhere in Vaisnava literature. Zero.
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Srila Prabhupada made many statements about the jivas ‘waking up’ from the material dream (illusion), but this also does not conflict with the previous acaryas’ teachings, nor does it directly confirm a previously active lila-based relationship with Krsna. It simply describes the covering and deluding nature of maya’s illusion, as well as a way to conceptualize spiritual enlightenment.
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When one practices vaidhi-bhakti, one can attain prema and go to Vaikuntha, where one can acquire four types of liberation: living on the same planet as Visnu (salokya), having the same bodily form as Visnu (sarupya,), having the same opulence as Visnu (sarsti,), and having constant association with Visnu (samipya).
If a liberated Vaisnava has the choice to “attain a bodily form like Visnu” - sarupya-mukti - then where is the question of returning home and waking up your original existing spiritual body? -
This is further proof that one’s spiritual bodily form is “awarded” to the jiva by Krsna or Visnu according to one’s desires to serve in a specific capacity.
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In the Krsna Book, Chapter Twenty-eight, Srila Prabhupada explains that those who perfect the practice of Krsna consciousness meet Krsna for the first time:
"The mature devotees, who have completely executed Krsna consciousness, are immediately transferred to the universe where Krsna is appearing. In that universe the devotees get their first opportunity to associate with Krsna personally and directly." -
"Ananga manjari will introduce me to all her companions, and will give me the service of preparing camphor for Their Lordships. She will reveal to me the pastimes of the divine couple." (148)
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A former resident of Goloka would need no introduction. Instead Kamala would have been welcomed back.
Every single description from the acaryas’ writings about a devotee’s entry into Krsna’s eternal pastimes (nitya-lila) indicates a new beginning, including first taking birth from a Vraja gopi in Krsna’s earthly pastimes (bhauma-lila), where the jiva obtains the necessary social context (abhimana) for their “new” identity – parents, siblings, husband, village of birth, social status, and so on. -
It is in that final birth that the realized jivas perfect the higher stages of their prema, thus becoming fully qualified to enter the eternal pastimes in Goloka in the transcendental realm (aprakata-nitya-lila). If we are simply resuming our original relationship from where we left off, then what is the need for taking birth again in the lila, if we supposedly already existed there before? Or what is the need for further training and development under the guidance of a Vraja associate as is always recommended? If we are just “waking up from being asleep in maya” why wouldn’t we just pick up where we left off in the same condition as when we left, fully reinstated in our original situation and fully conscious of our previous identity, relationship and service?
<IMPERSONALISMO: "Claro que es REGRESAR. Krsna es la origen de todo y todos.">
con que entonces krsna, la suprema PERSONALIDAD de dios no es la origen de todos nosotros. donde esta el impersonalismo? vamos todos regresar a krsna. donde esta el impersonalismo?
y no solo eso, tambien:
madhvacarya queria fundirse en el brahman? NO
ramanujacarya queria fundirse en el brahman? NO
todos los acaryas previos sin excepcion que no apoyan la caida de la jiva querian fundirse en el brahman? NO
sridhar swami queria fundirse en el brahman? NO
gaura govinda swami queria fundirse en el brahman? NO
luis quiere fundirse en el brahman? NO
anantaram quiere fundirse en el brahman? NO
prahlada alfageme quiere fundirse en el brahman? NO
jaya nrsimha quiere fundirse en el brahman? NO
todos estos vaisnavas (excepto yo) quieren servir a krsna la suprema PERSONALIDAD de dios !!!
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BG 10.8, Purport:
A learned scholar who has studied the Vedas perfectly and has information from authorities like Lord Caitanya and who knows how to apply these teachings can understand that Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything in both the material and spiritual worlds, and because he knows this perfectly he becomes firmly fixed in the devotional service of the Supreme Lord. -
Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha BG 10.42, Purport He is the origin of everyone born, and no one is greater than Him. He is asamaurdhva, which means that no one is superior to Him and that no one is equal to Him.
la origen de la jiva no es impersonal por no haber tenido una relacion plenamente desarrollada con el senor porque la jiva desde siempre tiene en su constituicion ser un sirviente eterno. jivera svarupa haya krsnera nitya dasa
NO SANSKRIT TERM FOR FALLEN DEVOTEES
Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti, commenting on Srimad-Bhagavatam 10.87.32, says that there are four types of
living beings:
1. Baddha—those under the influence of the avidya potency.
2. Mukta—those liberated from the covering of avidya by bhakti, but who have not yet attained a spiritual body. These are also called jivan-muktas, or liberated while living in the material body.
3. Siddha—those who have attained a spiritual body by the influence of bhakti. These are called baddha-muktas or liberated after being in bondage.
4. Nitya parsada—those who are eternally free from the association of avidya. They never become conditioned. They are also called nitya-muktas or nitya-siddhas.
He does not have a fifth category for residents of Vaikuntha who then fell down. In all the Vedic literature no such concept is found. One can see words such as nitya-baddha, nitya-mukta, and baddha-mukta, but
nothing like mukta-baddha, indicating someone who was liberated then bound.
Similarly, commenting on Vedanta-Syamantaka (3), a book by his spiritual master, Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana divided jivas in three classes:
1. Nitya-mukta—-eternally liberated.
2. Baddha-mukta—-were conditioned but became liberated.
3. Baddha—conditioned living entities.
Again, there is no mention of a class called mukta-baddha or something akin to that. Krsnadas Kaviraja (Cc. Madhya 22.10) mention only two classes, nitya-mukta and nitya-baddha. If so many living entities have indeed fallen from Vaikuntha, one
would expect to read something about them and find a word or phrase describing this class of living entities in common usage. But no Vaisnava philosopher has ever used such a word in his writing. There are no explicit statements in the Vedic literature which explain that a nitya-mukta falls. But there are many statements that establish
another conclusion; namely, that no one falls from Vaikuntha.
Although attaining liberation is such a rare thing, we have many statements and stories describing how nitya-baddhas become liberated. In contrast, we find that there is not a single historical account of fall-down from Vaikuntha in the many volumes of Vedic literature. This is indeed striking considering the vast number of fallen jivas in this one universe alone. We stipulate that there is only one reason why we find no such description in the sastra—because no one falls from Vaikuntha.
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<"zimmer deja de llamar a krsna de sadico de una punetera vez"... Esa no es no mi tesis, sino la conclusión de LA TUYA, prabhucito.>
si, tu no dices que krsna es un sadico. mas dices que si las jivas no tuviesen tenido una relacion plenamente desarrollada con krsna, y si krsna hiciese eso seria un sadico.
ya fue explicado que no tubimos una relacion plenamente desarrollada con krsna y que eso NO HACE que krsna sea sadico, porque EL esta siempre con la jiva para ayudarla y orientarla como caitya guru, dhama, maha mantra, sadhus, sastra, etc -
Jaya Nrsimha Sri Nrsimha LA MISMA COSA:
porque krsna emana entidades vivientes en distintas categorias. sus asociados eternos y intimos y las demas jivas? pa que? porque el no solamente manifiesta sus asociados intimos y eternos? pa que el manifiesta entidades vivientes que el sabe A PRIORI que se alejan? podriamos afirmar lo mismo, si krsna hiciese eso seria un sadico.
LA MISMA RESPUESTA:
eso NO HACE que krsna sea sadico, porque EL esta siempre con la jiva para ayudarla y orientarla como caitya guru, dhama, maha mantra, sadhus, sastra, etc
