"From authoritative sources it can be discerned that associates of Lord Visnu who descend from Vaikuntha do not actually fall. They come with the purpose of fulfilling the desire of the Lord, and their descent to this material world is comparable to that of the Lord. The Lord comes to this material world through the agency of His internal potency, and similarly, when a devotee or associate of the Lord descends to this material world, he does so through the action of the spiritual energy. Any pastime conducted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead is an arrangement by yoga-maya, not maha-maya. Therefore it is to understood that when Jaya and Vijaya descended to this material world, they came because there was something to be done for the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Otherwise it is a fact that no one falls from Vaikuntha." (Bhag. 7.1.35, purp.)
"This description of the abode of Krsna gives us definite information of the transcendental place where not only is life eternal, blissful and full of knowledge, but . . . the qualities in Vaikuntha are a manifestation of God’s internal potency, and therefore they are purely spiritual and transcendental, with no trace of material infection . . . where the five inherent qualities of the material world-namely ignorance, misery, egoism, anger and envy-are completely absent . . .THE INFLUENCE OF MAYA, THE TOTAL ENERGY, WICH INDUCES US TO BECOME MORE AND MORE MATERIALISTIC AND FORGET OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD, IS ALSO ABSENT THERE ...the living beings in Vaikunthaloka are never forgetful of their identities: they are eternally cognizant of their relationship with God . . . There is no difference between atheists and the faithful in the Vaikuntha planets because all who settle there are freed from the material qualities, and thus suras and asuras become equally obedient loving servitors of the Lord." (Cc. Madhya-lila 5.22, purp.)
Del mismo Priti-sandarbha - Anuccheda 16 de Jiva Gosvami:
"In the numberless material universes there are numberless individual souls whose karma is not awakened and who are as if asleep, merged in material nature. When the Supreme Lord awakens these souls and gives them external material bodies, this is called "creation of the souls". In truth the souls do not have a beginning in time, a moment in time when they were created. Each individual soul always existed. No individual soul will ever cease to exist. Every individual soul exists eternally."
Priti-sandarbha - Anuccheda 16, Jiva Gosvami explains:
“When one individual soul attains liberation, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who has inconceivable potencies, REPLACES HIM BY CREATING ANOTHER SOUL. In this way the Lord keeps the material world always filled."
"The individual atomic soul is definitely there in the heart along with the Supersoul, and thus all the energies of bodily movement are emanating from this part of the body." (Srila Prabhupada)
Los promulgadores de los sueños húmedos toman la citacion de Prabhupada de que en verdad somos Nitya Siddhas y de que estamos a soñar y solo necesitamos despertar y concluyen que estamos a tener un sueño húmedo en Goloka.
JAJAJAJAJA
Claro que somos Nitya Siddhas y nuestra posicion ETERNA como sirvientes ETERNOS de Krsna esta ahora encubierta por el ego falso. La Jiva esta en el corazon
"Formerly we were with Krishna in His lila, or sport...
So when I say yes, there is eternal lila with Krishna, that means on the evidence of Jaya-Vijaya..." (Srila Prabhupada)
Jaya e Vijaya no estaban con Krsna. Estaban con Narayana en Vaikuntha. Prabhupada cuando dice Krsna, siempre esta a decir Narayana o Visnu.
Estabamos con Visnu en Su Lila. El es la ORIGEN de Jiva Sakti.
Cuando esteamos y solo cuando esteamos en Goloka, el tiempo que estubimos aqui (millones) de vidas, pareceran como un sueño.
"Although by material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krishna consciousness this period is considered a second." (Srila Prabhupada)
Jivera svarupa hay krsnera NITYA DASA
Originalmente TODO EL MUNDO ES NITYA-SIDDHA. NITYA-SIDDHA KRISHNA BHAKTI SADHYA KABHU NAYA SRAVANADI-SUDDHA-CITTE KARAYE UDAYA. TODAS las entidades vivientes SON ORIGINALMENTE NITYA-SIDDHA.
Clase de Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.9.4. Mayapur, 18 de Febrero de 1977
Cuando esteamos (yo todavia demorare mucho) ahi en Vaikuntha o Goloka (de acuerdo con la inclinacion de cada uno), las millones y millones de vidas que estubimos aqui pareceran NADA. Nitya Siddhas.
"Nosotros también hemos caído de Vaikuntha hace millones y millones de años." Clase en Londres, 6 de Agosto de 1973
Por supuesto. Maha Visnu es Vaikuntha.
Y por ai va.
Ahora le distes en el punto.
Krsna manifiesta entidades vivas en distintas categorias.
Porque Krsna manifiesta entidades vivas que son mas débiles que otras?
Nosotros somos entidades débiles. Nosotros no estamos en la misma categoria que los asociados eternos de Krsna.
Tu dices que esto es injusto de la parte de Krsna.
El hace lo que El quiera. Nosotros tenemos que aceptar.
Los promulgadores de los sueños húmedos dicen que aquellos que afirman que nunca estubimos con Krsna no quieren asumir su resbonsabilidad. Ellos son los responsables por su libre albedrio de estar aqui, dicen ellos. Y es verdad. Usamos nuestro libre albedrio de manera incorrecta CUANDO SALIMOS DE MAHA VISNU. No en Vaikuntha o Goloka.
Y mismo considerando la idea absurda de que elejimos quedar en Maya en Vaikuntha. Aun asi en última instância pareceria injusticia de Krsna.
PORQUE EL MANIFIESTA ENTIDADES VIVAS QUE EL SABE A PRIORI QUE VAN A QUEDAR CONDICIONADAS?
Nosotros no estamos en la misma posicion de los asociados eternos de Krsna.
De cualquier manera que mires parecerá INJUSTICIA del Señor.
MAS NO ES INJUSTICIA. Solo tenemos que aceptar lo que Krsna hace y punto final.
http://harmonist.us/2014/05/anadi-for-beginners-we-all-have-to-start-somewhere-or-do-we/
http://bhaktirasayana.blogspot.pt/2013_06_01_archive.html
http://www.krishna.com/crow-and-tal-fruit-logic
http://gosai.com/writings/a-short-presentation-on-jiva-tattva
BG 1.24, Purport: In this verse Arjuna is referred to as Guḍākeśa. Guḍākā means sleep, and one who conquers sleep is called guḍākeśa. Sleep also means ignorance. So Arjuna conquered both sleep and ignorance because of his friendship with Kṛṣṇa. As a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he could not forget Kṛṣṇa even for a moment, because that is the nature of a devotee. Either in waking or in sleep, a devotee of the Lord can never be free from thinking of Kṛṣṇa's name, form, qualities and pastimes. Thus a devotee of Kṛṣṇa can conquer both sleep and ignorance simply by thinking of Kṛṣṇa constantly. This is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or samādhi.
So whether you were in the Brahma-sayujya or with Krishna in His lila, at the moment you are in neither, so the best policy is to develop your Krishna consciousness and go there [back to Godhead]—never mind what is your origin.
quando prabhupada fala krsna esta a referir-se a visnu.
brahma samhita 11
Una jiva es sin lugar a dudas una parte espiritual atómica movida por algún Poder Divino para ponerse en contacto con el mundo inanimado, y por ello se le conoce como potencia Tatastha. El fonema Tata representa una línea imaginaria de demarcación entre la tierra y el agua; la cual no se encuentra ni en la tierra ni en el agua sino en ambas. Tal potencia divina que se encuentra en medio, esto es, entre el agua y la tierra, sustenta una entidad que posee ambas propiedades terráqueas (de tierra y de agua). Las jivas sin duda son entidades espirituales, pero en su conformación son tan infinitesimales que son propensas a absorberse en los principios de Maya; //////////su constitución no es absolutamente espiritual como la de las entidades trascendentales del Reino Espiritual/////////, pero tampoco son absolutamente mundanas como cualquier fenómeno, debido a su aptitud o tendencia espiritual. Por esto, el fundamento de las jivas es completamente distinto del principio del Espíritu Supremo y de la materia. (JD I think)
Throughout scripture karma is described as being anadi, or beginningless. This is because God’s (Maha-Visnu’s) pastime of creation (srsti-lila) also has no beginning, although it manifests and becomes unmanifest in beginningless and endless cycles. The individual souls (jivas) who participate in this lila have been doing so from time without beginning, and their beginningless interaction with material nature (maya-sakti) has the consequence of karma, the just rule of nature. While karma has no beginning, it can come to an end through Maha-Visnu’s mercy, which enables these jivas to become free from the bondage of karma.
Caitanya-caritamrta explains that the form of God known as Maha Sankarsana of Vaikuntha is the origin of all jivas: ‘jiva’-nama tatasthakhya eka sakti haya maha-sankarsana—saba jivera asraya. The eternally liberated (nitya-siddha) jivas that populate the spiritual sky expand from him like sparks from a fire. His incarnation, one aspect of the Paramatma (Maha-Visnu), presides over the material world (maya-sakti). Thus Maha Sankarsana is also the shelter of this first purusa, Maha Visnu: sei purusera sankarsana samasraya. As an avatara of Maha Sankarsana, this purusa, Maha-Visnu, is the shelter of the jivas who populate the material world.
Scripture says that Maha-Visnu glances at maya and lights up the world with jiva-sakti: adya-avatara kare mayaya iksana. This is called srsti-lila, or the lila of creation, in which Maha-Visnu, although setting it into motion as the Paramatma, is not a principal player. He expands into every universe and every atom, and through him Bhagavan also incarnates for various lilas of his own. These lilas are aloof from the world other than to uplift the nitya baddha-jivas (eternally conditioned souls), who are under the influence of anadi karma.
The section of Subjective Evolution of Consciousness that you have cited is referring to the condition of the nitya-baddha jivas when the material world is in an unmanifest condition between creations. In this interim condition, karma is suspended and the individual jivas tend towards homogeneity. When Maha-Visnu desires out of his own joy to become many, the jivas begin their march towards heterogeneity and the material individuality that is demarcated by their karma. This coming and going of the nitya-baddha jivas has no beginning any more than Maha-Visnu himself does. This is his lila, in which we play a significant role. In his srsti-lila, we eternally have the opportunity to choose to leave through the grace that Maha-Visnu showers on the world by facilitating Bhagavan Narayana’s lilas of incarnation. His grace comes in the form of both lila and yuga avataras, as well as though his devotees in guru-parampara. Leaving the srsti-lila, one enters the nitya-lila of Bhagavan in Vaikuntha, where Bhagavan plays the principal role.
This is the normal course of events. We, however, are more fortunate in that we have been graced by an exception to this norm. We have the opportunity to rise from the srsti-lila to beyond Vaikuntha, for Vrajendranandana Krishna has appeared as Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in place of the Kali-yuga avatara. In doing so, he has shown the way to enter the Vraja-lila, unknown as it is even to the inhabitants of Vaikuntha, by following in the footsteps of his eternal associates.
“chit-shakti krishnera paripurna shakti — tini yaha udbhava karena, se samasta nitya-siddha vastu. jiva nitya-siddha naya, sadhana dvara jiva sadhana-siddha haiya nitya-siddhera samana ananda bhoga karena.. shrimatira chaturvidha sakhigana nitya-siddha evam chit-shakti svarupa shrimatira kayvyuha.. vraje krishna svarupe samasta purna chid-vyapara prakata karena; baladeva svarupe shesha tattva haiya sheshi svarupa krishnera ashta prakare seva nirvahera janya nitya-mukta parshada jiva nichaya ke prakata karena; abara paravyome shesha rupa sankarshana haiya sheshi rupe narayanera ashta prakara seva nirvahera janya nitya parshada rupe ashta prakara sevaka prakata karena; sankarshanera avatara rupe mahavishnu jiva-shaktira adhisthana haiya paramatma svarupe jagadgata jivatma sakalake prakata karena.. ataeva, siddhanta ei je, jiva-shakti jivake prakata karena, — chit shakti jivake prakata karena na.”
“The spiritual world is Krishna’s complete energy. Whatever all manifests from it, is eternally perfect. The soul is not eternally perfect. By practice, the soul can become newly perfect and enjoy the same bliss like the eternally perfect souls. The four types of girlfriends of Shrimati Radha are eternally perfect and Her direct bodily expansions with forms of Her internal potency. In Vraja, as Krishna, He manifests all the complete spiritual pastimes. Baladeva becomes Shesha and manifests more eternally perfect associates to engage in the eight forms of service to Krishna. And in Vaikuntha, He becomes Sankarshana Shesha and manifests further eternally perfect servants to render the eight forms of service to Narayana. And finally Maha Vishnu, the incarnation of Sankarshana & the resting place of the jiva shakti between the spiritual & material creations, manifests all the other non-eternally-perfect souls in the form of the Supersoul. Therefore the final philosophical conclusion is that the souls are never created in the spiritual world but in the marginal region of jiva shakti.”
By Shrila Bhaktivinoda Thakura.
it is Maha Visnu who desires to become many and thus manifests as the baddha jiva. It is said that the jiva is conditioned because of Visnu’s proximity and relationship with maya. To remedy the problem resulting from his involvement with maya arising from his desire to become many, he enters the world of maya (as the avatara) and saves the baddha jiva.
Q. What does it mean when the scripture says that the living being (jiva) takes his first birth in the material world as Brahma?
A. It is not that every jiva is born first as a Brahma and after a lifetime as Brahma falls into lower forms of life. The correct understanding is that Brahma represents what is referred to as samasti-jiva, the collective of jiva souls. This is described in Srimad-Bhagavatam SB 3.20.16, sarva-jivanikayauko yatra svayam abhut svarat. It is also explained in SB 11.3.12, where the samasti-jiva is referred to as the vairaja-purusa. According to Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, the word vairajah in this verse indicates the totality of the individual conditioned souls who originally take birth from Brahma and are amalgamated back into him at the time of annihilation. Thus Brahma represents the collective of jivas and in this sense the jiva is born first as Brahma, who is also the first-born jiva.
Q. What does the term sakti-tattva mean and what is the difference between sakti-tattvas and nitya mukta souls?
A. The term sakti-tattva refers to all aspects of Krishna constituted of his energy (sakti), as opposed to himself (saktiman). This includes maya sakti (illusory energy), svarupa sakti (internal energy), jiva sakti (individual souls), etc. Nitya-muktas are eternally liberated souls (jivas) and thus are also constituted of his sakti.
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NA VERDADE A ESCOLHA ENTRE MAYA E KRSNA É FEITA AQUI NESTE MUNDO MATERIAL
Of course the world has a spiritual casue! Visnu desires to become many. But there is no initial beginning to this desire. The glance of Visnu is the activation of pradhana and the next world cycle. ///////It is not a place where jivas choose to enter the world or not.////////// Prior to the glance all the jivas are in susupti, a condition of suppressed dormant karma. When Visnu glances their karma is awakened. This has already been explained in my article. Your attachment to your own ideas is getting in the way of your ability to understand simple truths and giving rise to distorted reasoning hardly worth addressing.
EEEEEEXXXXXXXTREMAMENTE IMPORTANTE.
///////////And sastra posits no condition of the baddha-jiva prior to susupti other than another previous world cycle.//////////////
priti sandarbha 16
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haridas
Cc. Antya. 3.78,79
"Haridāsa said, "My Lord, as long as You are situated within the material world, You will send to the spiritual sky all the developed moving and nonmoving living entities in different species. Then again You will awaken the living entities who are not yet developed and engage them in activities."
Letter to Jagadisa -- Los Angeles 25 April, 1970: Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 20th April, 1970, along with a Canadian money order for $278, and thank you very much for this.
I am very glad to know that your Maha-sankirtana. with coordination of Buffalo are so successful. Please continue this program as you have suggested and surely Krishna will see that your more vigorous efforts to spread His movement are successful more and more.
Regarding Brijbasi posters, just take out pictures portraying Krishna with cows, with Gopis—just Krishna pictures, no pictures of demigods. Those pictures are alright.
Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at any time, so there is always the chance of falling down by misuse of one's independence. But those who are firmly fixed up in devotional service to Krsna are making proper use of their independence and so they do not fall down.
Regarding your second question, have the conditioned souls ever seen Krsna? Were they with the Lord before being conditioned by the desire to lord it over material nature? Yes, the conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus they were with Krsna before being conditioned. Just as the child must have seen his father because the father places the child in the womb of the mother, similarly each soul has seen Krsna or the Supreme Father. But at that time the conditioned souls are resting in the condition called susupti which is exactly deep sleep without dream, or anesthetized state, therefore they do not remember being with Krsna when they wake up in the material world and become engaged in material affairs. I hope this will satisfy your questions.
Please offer my blessings to your good wife, Laksmimoni, and to all the other girls and boys there.
