Ujjvala Nilamani Amazing Madhura Material

What AMAZING !!!

Even devotees who have given up the material path but are in other rasas, consider madhura rasa as something material.

From Ujjvala Nilamani:

mukhya-rasesu pura yah samksepenodito rahasyatvat |
prthag eva bhakti-rasa-rat sa vistarenocyate madhurah ||2||

"Madhura-rasa, the king of all bhakti-rasas, which was described only briefly in Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu among the chief rasas because of its confidential nature, is described in detail here, since this work remains confidential with the devotees."

Jiva:

This rasa called madhura or ujjvala, the king of bhakti-rasas, is described in detail in Ujjvala-nilamani. It was previously described briefly because it is very confidential. This rasa is hidden from persons opposed to the Lord, who are without taste, since they equate it with material conjugal rasa. Even highly respected persons are not skilful at understanding the meaning of Bhagavatam. This rasa is also difficult for them to understand. Therefore it should be hidden from them as well. What then to speak of materialistic people?

Visvanatha:

Three reasons are given in the quotation for not describing the rasa in detail; it is unsuitable for those without taste (nivrttanupayogitvat), it is difficult to understand (duruhatvat) and it is secret (rahasyatvat). In the present verse, only its secret nature (rahasyatvat) is mentioned, since it includes the other two reasons. This topic is unsuitable even for those who have given up the material path, and who have taste for santa, dasya, sakhya and vatsalya rasa, but who do not have taste for ujjvala-rasa (nivrtta)--since they see it as material, seeing it from the point of view of material lust.

Yes, I can understand that devotees in santa, dasya, sakhya and vatsalya rasa should not read the ujjvala nilamani, but that these devotees in other rasas consider the devotees in madhurya rasa to be following something material ... for God's sake !!!

In other words. Devotees in madhurya rasa are not well seen, even for another DEVOTEES.

Gopi bhava club, sahajiyas, etc, etc, bla bla bla ...

Vraja Bhakti and Bhagavad Gita

"One can ask why did Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana consider it necessary to write a commentary on the Bhagavad-gita, when shortly before that his siksa guru; Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura, had written an excellent and original commentary perfectly in harmony with Gaudiya philosophy. His personal answer to that question we will never know.

However, by examining his commentary, Gita Bhusana, the reader will be able to appreciate that he has indeed made a significant contribution to the study of the Gita in writing it. Like Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti's, his explanations are unique and consistent with the whole of the Gita, and yet his commentary is quite different from Visvanatha's. At the same time, the explanations are in harmony with the Gaudiya philosophy. Thus, we have two equally brilliant commentaries on the same text. Both conclude the supremacy of Krsna and pure bhakti, but with different explanations of the verses leading to that conclusion. Within one sampradaya, we have two differing explanations of a work, both of which we accept as correct. Inconceivably, the two commentaries are different but harmonious.

Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana presents the concept of three types of devotees: the sanishta, parinisthita and nirapeksa in order to bring unity to the whole of the Gita. The sanistha bhakta follows the gradual process: niskama karma yoga (varnasrama), followed by jnana yoga, astanga yoga, and finally bhakti yoga. Thus all the processes described in the first six chapters can be considered essential for the sanishta bhakta's development. The parinisthita bhakta directly engages in the devotional processes of hearing and chanting as his main sadhana. He also performs varnasrama rules, but without attachment, only to set an example for less advanced persons who do not have strong faith to practice bhakti as their main sadhana. The nirapeksa bhakta performs only bhakti and rejects the rules of varnasrama. He is usually a renounced person. The latter two types of devotees are called ananya bhaktas or pure devotees, though they are practicing sadhana. They are considered superior because of their direct practice of bhakti. These two types are described in the middle six chapters, and at the conclusion of the Gita. This explanation of the relationship of varnasrama to bhakti may be useful to readers for application in their own lives." (Foreword by Bhanu Swami in his translation of the commentary on the Bhagavad-gita - Gita Bhusana by Srila Baladeva Vidyabhusana)

In fact:

"Srila Visvanatha Chakravarti Thakura was the first in the Gaudiya lineage to write an entire commentary on the Gita. He gives the idea that VERSES 8-11 of Chapter 10 can be considered the chatuh-sloki of Bhagavad-gita, the four essential verses that unlock the meaning of the book. In his commentary on verse 9, one of the four essential verses, Chakravarti Thakura says, "Sri Bhagavan's above statements describe raganuga bhakti only." As we know, raganuga bhakti is found exclusively in Vraja. Therefore, from the very first Gaudiya commentary, we find that Vraja-bhakti is discussed. Chakravarti Thakura says not only that Vraja-bhakti can be drawn from the verse but that it is the only explanation.
The speaker of the Gita is Dvarakesa Parthasarathi Krishna and not Vrajendra-nandana Krishna. Scriptural references shows that these two forms/personalities of Krishna overlap and, by doing so, demonstrating the validity of the previous acharyas' claims that Krishna of Kuruksetra at times speaks covertly about his love for the inhabitants of Vrindavana.

An example of this overlap of Vraja and Dwarakesa Krishna, can be found in Sanatana Goswami's Brihad-bhagavatamrita (BBT edition). There Rukmini admits, "Sometimes at night He says this and that in His sleep. Sometimes, in a most sweet voice, He utters names as if calling His cows. Sometimes he calls His girlfriends or some of the cowherd boys. And sometimes while asleep He acts as if He were placing His flute to His mouth and assumes His enchanting threefold-bending form." Someone might argue that this example is not valid because Krishna is asleep, at which time one can be transported mentally to a different place. Yet Satyabhama confirms that "Even while active and awake, He seems to have His mind on something else, as if dreaming. Indeed, we are His wives only in name; His young cowherd maidservants are in fact more dear to Him than we are." The commentary adds, "As Satyabhama and other queens witnessed, even in the middle of the day Krishna often acted as if His mind were in Vraja. He would call out to His cows, His friends, and His gopis, just as Rukmini testified He did in His sleep." ("No Vraja-bhakti in Bhagavad-gita?" by Babhru das)

Lalasamayi–Submission–Gosthyanandi

Some repeatedly claim that the devotee should not aspire to personally serve Krsna in a particular Rasa because Krsna being self satisfied and being served by His Nitya Parikaras "do not need our service".

Srila Prabhupada explains that this statement is not valid.

"The Lord is full in Himself; He does not require our service, but if we render service unto Him in love and devotion, such action enriches our very existence." (Srila Prabhupada, Los Angeles, 16 February, 1970)

Aspire to get his/her original constitutional form is not for personal enjoyment, but with this constitutional form the devotee can serve Radha Krsna perfectly.

In the eighteenth chapter of Nectar of Devotion Srila Prabhupada explains:
"When someone is sufficiently anxious to obtain success in devotional service, it is called Samutkantha. This means complete anxiety. In fact, this anxiety is the price to get success in Krsna consciousness.

In the Skanda Purana there is a statement regarding submission to the lotus feet of the Lord. There is said that those who are sober devotees can offer their submission to Krsna in the following three ways:

1) Samprathanatmika - offering prayers with much feeling.

2) Dainyavodhika - submitting humbly.

3) Lalasamayi - desiring some stage of perfection.

Wish some stage of perfection in spiritual life is not sense gratification. When a person understands something about the constitutional relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he understands what is his original position and wants to be reinstated in that position, either as a friend, or as a servant, or as a father (or mother) or as a conjugal lover of Krsna.
This is called Lalasamayi, or feel very intense desire to achieve our natural position."

A devotee is Akama (free from material desires) but wants to serve Sri Sri Radha Krsna and he intensely wishes (Lalasamayi) achieve his original constitutional relationship not for personal enjoyment but to serve fully Sri Sri Radha Syamasundara.

In fact, intensely desire to achieve our position as servants in a specific Rasa is not sensory gratification, is a proof of submission.
This intense desire begins when Lobha awakens (and this may occur in the early stages of sadhu sanga, bhajana kriya, etc) and reaches perfection in Svarupa Siddhi in Bhava.

Another claim presented Siksastakam 4:

"I only want Your causeless devotional service birth after birth."

Some take this statement to mean that we should not aspire to serve Krsna in the spiritual world. But here birth after birth means until reaching the perfection of devotional service.

Another valid argument is that we can remain in this material world and participate in spreading the Sankirtana movement of Mahaprabhu in this lifetime being a Jīvan-mukta.

"It is possible to engage in transcendental loving service to the Lord and become jīvan-mukta, a liberated soul, even while in the material body." (CC Adi 2.91-92)

However, once achieved perfection, in the next birth being born in the womb of a Gopi in another universe, the devotee engages in eternally serving Sri Sri Radha Krsna in the spiritual world.

Once reaching the spiritual world, Siddhas come to this material world just accompanying Krsna or with a very special mission. In general Gurus are Sadhana Siddhas.

Supposedly, Iskcon should be a society of Gosthyanandi Raganuga Bhaktas.

The problem is when some just want the part of Gosthyanandi and do not want the part of Raganuga.

Or otherwise, some just want the part of Raganuga and do not want the part of Gosthyanandi.

But attention, Gosthyanandi do not simply refers to externally hearing, chanting and following the other Angas of Bhakti. Gosthyanandi means daily go out and spread profusely the Holy Name and Srila Prabhupada's books.

Prabhupada's Iskcon and Bhaktisiddhanta's Gaudiya Matha were and are successful in the external spread of Mahaprabhu's movement and showed how to do it for the other Gaudiya Vaishnavas. But Iskcon and GM can not neglect the internal practice of the process.

seva Sadhaka Rupena Siddha Rupena catra hi ...

“What's wrong with desiring Krishna's and his friend's association? That is the characteristic of the Braja relationships. Even though the purest devotees might say other things, not wanting Krishna's association easily border on impersonalism for us western fallen souls. Not wanting personal relationship might sound like a good 'spiritual' idea in the mood of santa rasa, but for a fallen soul it is easily an excuse for a lack of taste for personal relationship with Krishna. A deep hole we should be very careful to not fall into.”

In the following quote, Sripada Namanandi Aindra Das Prabhu warns about the danger of neglecting the deepening of internal conceptualization of Krishna’s service, which can result in the practitioner “a devotional vacuum” that will take to fill it with subtle and gross mundane Rasas . Or in other words, “chewing the chewed”:

“It’s not enough simply to know the denial that “I’m not “this” [illusory material] body.”
There comes a certain point, an individual seriously inquisitive inevitably asks, “If I’m not “this” body, which body then am I?”
More than the idea of being an indescribable “eternal servant of Krishna” and being a spiritual entity, as well as psycho-physical tabernacle currently acquired, could theoretically be quite entrenched in the brain, just the realization that “I am not “this” body” without cultivating a more internal spiritual concept tends to give the “I” an internal spiritual dissatisfaction “formless” (nirakara) vulnerable to a corporeal nostalgic selfishness that “something is better than nothing” and the individual return to the subtle or gross mundane Rasas.” (Sripada Aindra Dasa Prabhuji)

"The duty of all devotees is to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness everywhere all over the world, because all living entities without Kṛṣṇa consciousness are suffering the pangs of material existence. To preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the best welfare activity. Indeed, it is described by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu as para-upakāra, work for the true benefit of others." (SB 7.7.53)

"A Kṛṣṇa conscious person should free himself from the clutches of māyā, and he should also be compassionate to all others suffering in those clutches. The activities of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement are meant not only for oneself but for others also. This is the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness." (SB 6,2,36-37)

"There are two kinds of devotees of the Lord. One is called goṣṭhyānandī, which means those who are preachers and have many followers for preaching the glories of the Lord and who live among those many, many followers just to organize missionary activities. Other devotees are ātmānandī (bhajanānandī), or self-satisfied, and do not take the risk of preaching work." (SB 3.24.34)

http://www.wsnl.net/hist/WSNnew.htm

Both, external and internal. Not only external and not only internal.

CC Antya 4.102 — “Some behave very well but do not preach the cult of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, whereas others preach but do not behave properly.

CC Antya 4.103 — “You simultaneously perform both duties in relation to the holy name by your personal behavior and by your preaching. Therefore you are the spiritual master of the entire world, for you are the most advanced devotee in the world.”

Manjaris, same sentiment of Radha

TVAṀ RŪPA MAÑJARI SAKHI PRATHITĀ PURE'SMIN
PUṀSAḤ PARASYA VADANAṀ NA HI PAŚYASĪTI
BIMBĀDHARE KṢATAM ANĀGATA BHARTṚKĀYĀ
YAT TE VYADHĀYI KIM U TAC CHUKA PUṄGAVENA

My dear friend Rūpa Mañjari! In the township of Vraja you are well known for your chastity. You don't even look at the faces of other men! It is therefore surprising that your lips, that are as beautiful as red Bimba-fruits, have been bitten, although your husband is not at home. Has this maybe been done by the best of parrots?

Tika by Srila Ananta das Babaji:
…
In this verse Śrīla Dāsa Gosvāmī offers a sarasa stava (tasty praise) to his own guru Śrī Rūpa Mañjarī in his own siddha svarūpa. It is called sarasa stava because here Śrī Gurudevī is a priya sakhī. The first three verses take place within one līlā. When the svarūpāveśa becomes very intense in the sādhaka deha (material body of the devotee) the devotee can not be happy and satisfied anymore with his experiences during smaraṇa, dreams and visions (sphuraṇa) as he was before. He is constantly burning in the fire of want for the direct attainment of his beloved. When on top of that these visions and other awarenesses also vanish from him, this fire assumes a terrible form and he finds no way to keep himself alive. In that condition his beloved deity personally comes to console him, or His associates come to console him. In this verse Śrīla Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī is in svarūpāveśa and sees himself as Śrī Rādhā's maidservant, but whenever he loses hold of his spiritual absorption he suffers intolerable pain. Rolling on the bank of Rādhākuṇḍa he then cries out loudly for his Svāminī.
Śrīmatī Rūpa Mañjarī has accomplished the meeting of Rādhikā and Śyāmasundara in a solitary cave of Govardhana Hill, and she secretly looks through a hole in that cave to witness Their sweet love-pastimes. Rādhā and Śyāma are both intoxicated by Each other's presence. How expertly are They playing Their pastimes! At the end of these pastimes Śyāmasundara bites Śrīmatī's lips, leaving a mark there. The relationship between Rādhikā and Rūpa Mañjarī is so pure that all the signs of Kṛṣṇa's lovemaking on Śrī Rādhikā's body, such as His bitemarks on Her lips, become manifest on Śrī Rūpa Mañjarī's body also. Śrī Rūpa Mañjarī is beside herself of ecstasy, so she's not aware of this reflection. Then she thinks to herself: "Aha! My sakhī Tulasī Mañjarī (Raghunātha Dāsa Gosvāmī) has not seen these sweet pastimes! Where is she? Alas, I should bring her here and show this to her!", so she leaves the window and starts searching for Tulasī. When Tulasī meets Rūpa Mañjarī, she notices Kṛṣṇa's bite marks on her lips and jokingly asks her: "My dear friend Rūpa Mañjari! You never look at the faces of other men! You're famous in Vraja for your chastity! But, despite the fact that your husband is not at home, I see that your lips have been bitten! Has some great parrot maybe done this?"
If anyone considers the words śuka puṅgavena to indicate that Śrī Rūpa Mañjarī was enjoyed by Śrī Kṛṣṇa, then that would contradict the definition the ācāryas have given of the mañjarīs within their books.

ananya śrī rādhā padakamala dāsyaika rasadhī
hareḥ saṅge raṅgam svapana samaye nā'pi dadhati
balāt kṛṣṇa kūrpāsakabhidi kim apy ācarati kā-
py udāśrur meveti pralapati mamātma ca hasati

(Vṛndāvana Mahimāmṛta 16, 94)

"The maidservants, that are exclusively devoted to the service of Śrī Rādhā's lotus feet, that are like an ocean of nectar, do not enjoy with Śrī Hari even in their dreams. When Kṛṣṇa forcibly pulls at their bodices they cry out: 'No, no!', while Rādhikā watches and laughs."

Śrīmatī laughs here because of the kiṅkarīs' loyalty to Her service. The bee enjoys the flowers, not the buds (mañjarīs). The buds (mañjarīs) enhance the bee's thirst for the flowers. They are mañjarīs in name, mañjarīs in form and mañjarīs in nature! Śrī Rūpa is the bud of Śrī Rādhā's form (rūpa mañjarī), Śrī Rati Mañjarī is the bud of Śrīmatī love (rati), Śrī Vilāsa Mañjarī is the bud of Śrī Rādhā's love-play (vilāsa). Śrī Kṛṣṇa accepts defeat at their bhāva-niṣṭhā.

rādhā raṅga lasat tad ujjvala kalā sañcāraṇā prākriyā
cāturyottaram eva sevanam ahaṁ govinda samprārthaye
yenāśeṣa vadhū janodbhata manorājya prapañcāvadhau
nautsukyaṁ bhavad aṅga saṅgama rase'py ālambate man manaḥ
(Ujjvala Nīlamaṇi Sakhi 88)

"One sakhī was picking flowers for making a vana-mālā and Kṛṣṇa, seeing her, told her: "O beautiful girl! Make your birth a success by joining Me for a while in this kuñja!" Hearing this, that sakhī (mañjarī) said: "O Govinda! I only want to serve while You make love with Śrī Rādhā, showing Your brilliant amorous skills on the stage of erotic dancing named Śrī Rādhā! All the girls of Vraja find the limit of perfection on the strength of this service, therefore, O Gokula-candra! My mind is never eager to relish the rasa of Your Anaṅga-saṅga (erotic union). Please just engage me in this long-desired service!"

Śrī Viśvanātha Cakravartī writes in his 'Ānanda Candrikā' commentary on this verse:
tvayā saha sāṅga saṅga sukhād api jāla randhrādau śrī rādhāṅga-saṅga darśanotthaṁ sukham adhikam anubhūtaṁ man manasā. na hi labdhādhika sukha jana alpe sukhe pravartante iti bhāvaḥ.
"I relish more pleasure in witnessing Your sports with Śrī Rādhā in the kuñja looking through the holes in the vines than in personally enjoying with You. People don't endeavour for a smaller happiness when they can attain greater happiness!"

Even Śrī Rādhā Herself fails in having them meet with Śrī Kṛṣṇa:

tvayā yad upabhujyate murajid aṅga saṅge sukham
tad eva bahu jānati svayam avāptitaḥ śuddha-dhīḥ
mayā kṛta vilobhanāpy adhika cāturi cāryayā
kadāpi maṇi mañjarī na kurute'bhisāra spṛhaṁ

Śrī Rādhikā engaged one sakhī to make Maṇi Mañjarī meet with Kṛṣṇa, but that sakhī returned to Rādhā unsuccessfully, saying:

"O Rādhe! Maṇi Mañjarī finds more happiness in Your meeting with Kṛṣṇa than in her own! Just see how pure her consciousness is! Although I expertly tried to tempt her to go out and meet Kṛṣṇa, she never desires this!" (Ujjvala Nīlamaṇi, sakhī prakaraṇa 89)
...

Śrīla Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī has written in his Vraja Vilāsa Stava (38):

tāmbūlārpaṅa pāda-mardana payo dānābhisārādibhir
vṛndāraṇya maheśvarīṁ priyatayā yās toṣayanti priyāḥ
prāṇa preṣṭha sakhī kulād api kilāsaṅkocitā bhūmikāḥ
kelī bhūmiṣu rūpa mañjarī mukhās tā dāsikāḥ saṁśraye

"I take shelter of Śrī Rādhikā's maidservants, headed by Rūpa Mañjarī, that always engage in serving betel leaves, massaging the feet, serving water, and arranging for the Divine Couple's secret trysts. These maidservants are even more dear to the great Queen of Vṛndāraṇya (Śrī Rādhikā) than the prāṇa preṣṭha sakhīs (the girlfriends that are dearer to Her than life), and She is therefore not at all shy before them!"

rati-raṇe śramayuta, nāgarī nāgara
mukha bhari tāmbūla yogāya
malaya-ja kuṅkuma, mṛga-mada karpūra,
militahi gāta lāgāya

aparūpa priya sakhī prema!
nija prāṇa koṭi, dei niramañchai,
naha tula lākho bāṇa hema

"How wonderful is the love of the priya sakhīs! They serve Nāgarī (heroine Rādhikā) and Nāgara (hero Kṛṣṇa) with millions of lives when They are tired of lovemaking, by filling Their mouths with betelleaves and by anointing Their bodies with sandalwoodpaste, vermilion, musk and camphor. Their love is so pure that it cannot even be compared to gold molten a hundred-thousand times over!"

manorama mālya, duhu gole arpai,
vījai śīta mṛdu bāta
sugandhī śītala, koru jala arpaṇa,
yaiche hota duhu śāṅta

"They offer enchanting garlands to Their necks, give Them a cool breeze by fanning Them, and relieve Them from Their heated affliction by offering Them cool and fragrant water."

duhuka caraṇa puna, mṛdu saṁvāhana,
kori śrama korolohi dūra
iṅgite śayana, korolo duhu sakhī-gaṇa
sabahu manoratha pūra

"These sakhīs again softly massage Their feet and thus remove Their fatigue. On Their indication they put the Divine Pair to rest and fulfill any of Their other desires."

kusuma śeje duhu, nidrita herai,
sevana parāyaṇa sukha.
rādhā mohana dāsa, kiye herabo,
meṭabo sab mano-dukha

"These girls, that are totally dedicated to their devotional service, then put the Divine Pair to sleep on a bed of flowers. All the mental distress of Rādhā Mohana dāsa is mitigated when he sees this."

The sweet relish of this confidential pastime of the Śrī-Śrī Yugala Kiśora is the long-desired treasure of the mañjarīs. Hence the mañjarīs never desire personal meetings with Śrī Kṛṣṇa. But that does not mean that they are deprived of this rasa.
Their one-ness in feeling (bhāva-tādātmya) with Śrī Rādhā is so remarkable that they experience all of Her bodily relish in a special way.

spṛśati yadi mukundo rādhikāṁ tat sakhīnāṁ
bhavati vapuṣi kampa sveda romañca vāṣpam
adhara madhu mudāsyās cet pibaty esa yatnād
bhavati bata tad āsāṁ mattatā citram etat

"How amazing! When Mukunda touches Rādhikā, Her girlfriends cry of ecstasy and their bodies tremble, perspire, and are studded with goosepimples, and when Kṛṣṇa blissfully drinks the honey of Rādhikā's lips (by kissing Her), then they all become mad!" (Govinda Līlāmrta 11.137)

The stages above prema, from sneha up to mahābhāva, that are required to attain personal service in the mood of the gopīs, can only appear in a transcendental gopī-body, for a sādhaka body is unable to tolerate the coolness of meeting with Śrī Kṛṣṇa or the heat of separation from Him. The words ‘vraje’bhavan’, meaning “taking birth in Vraja”, must be understood to mean that the sādhana siddhas appear in the womb of a gopikā in the same way as the eternally beloved Vraja-vadhūs of Śrī Kṛṣṇa appear during the manifest pastimes. After that, on the strenght of the association of nitya-priyās like Śrī Rādhā and Lalitā they gradually attain sneha, māna, praṇaya, rāga, anurāga and mahābhāva through seeing, hearing and glorifying Śrī Kṛṣṇa and His associates. Without this mahābhāva the personal devotional service of Śrī Kṛṣṇa in a gopī body cannot be attained. The example of this is given by Śrī Śukadeva in the Śrīmad Bhāgavata, when he described how the gopīs went on their way to dance the Rāsa with Kṛṣṇa after they heard Śrī Kṛṣṇa playing His flute, but some gopīs were locked into their inner chambers because they were sages from the Daṇḍaka-forest in their previous birth who were unable to get the association of the nitya siddha gopīs, although they had taken birth in Vraja as gopīs. Since they were thus unable to attain mahābhāva and could also not get the aid of Yogamāyā, the gopīs who were locked into their houses by their relatives felt such great pangs of separation from Śrī Kṛṣṇa that on the strength of their meditations on Him they were quickly able to attain this stage of mahābhāva, that is usually only attained through a gradual process, and thus became blessed by attaining the Rāsa-dance. Thus the blessed author says that in the sādhaka body of the previous birth it is not possible to awaken the stages from sneha up to mahābhāva.

"nikunjayuno ratikeli siddhayai"

The devotee complained saying that the topic of Gopi Bhava and Manjari Bhava is Sahajiya conversation and then go to lead the singing in the Temple:

ei nivedana dharo, sakhir anugata koro
seva-adhikara diye koro nija dasi

Gopi bhava (Srila Prabhupada) came to America at 70 years old, penniless, and started a worldwide society of GOSTYANANDI RAGANUGA bhaktas.

In the case of "nikunjayuno ratikeli siddhayai" when asked Srila Prabhupada also mentioned other Rasas. But in the case of verse "ei nivedana dharo, sakhir anugata koro", as far as I know Prabhupada DID NOT mention other Rasas. It is clear, DAILY we are asking for make ourselves female followers of Sakhis. Becoming DASIS. "seva-adhikara diye koro nija DASI"

Interestingly, this song was written by Krishna Dasa. As far as I know this Krsna Dasa is Krsna Dasa Tatapada, a Babaji that belongs to Srila Narottama Dasa Thakur Parivar. Iskcon sings a song of a Babaji

Gaudiya Vaisnava followers of Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu may be attracted by other Rasas. But, SIMULTANEOUSLY, they are also attracted by Gopi Bhava and Manjari Bhava.

"Those who engage in the service of Lord Nityānanda Prabhu and Lord Advaita Prabhu generally have relationships of parental love, fraternity, servitude and neutrality. When such devotees develop great attachment for Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they too become situated within the intimate circle of devotees in conjugal love." (CC Ādi 7.17)

Yes, only manjaris can enter there.

The quote "nikunja yuno" refers to a devotee who asked Prabhupada if when he sings "nikunja yuno" should meditate that Guru is a Sakhi. And Prabhupada replied that he could meditate that Guru is a Sakhi or can meditate that Guru is in another Rasa.

But in the case of "ei nivedana dharo, sakhir anugata koro seva-adhikara diye koro nija DASI" there is no mistaking.

The devotee sings asking to be a DASI.

One could argue that anyone aspiring to be a priya narma sakha can sing this tulasi song. But the song is very clear. Asks to be a D A S I and not a Dasa.

Someone could also argue that this is simply the mood of the song's author Krsna Dasa, and not necessarily the devotee who sings. What seems really strange because we have to practice only the parts of bhakti that are conducive to our mood.

Imagine someone who aspires to be a Sakha singing every day that wants to be a DASI.

This is unfavorable to the cultivation of personal humor.

Conclusion: Double Svarupa !!!

Yes, Radha and Krsna are the queen and king of the kamanuga raganuga bhakta's heart.

Siddha Deha Next life

I am not able to read all the postings here, but I did read your last question and would like to use to for the Q&A section of jiva.org if Babaji replies (presently he is unable). As I understand it, you don't get rasa or rati just by association with any sadhu and getting his mercy, like one contract as virus. What it means basically is taking diksa and then siksa and seva (BRS 1.2.74). And then most likely there is no more future birth, that would only be an exception. For that reason hardly anyone has bhakti samskaras from previous life times. It is by yadrcchaya that we meet a particular sadhu and if we associate seriously we take diksa, and that is it. So you will not get different samskaras from other people. Nowadays of course it is different. Devotees run here and there, go on the internet and get totally confused by various opinions of various experts. Traditionally, this was not the case.

And then most likely there is no more future birth

"Until the bhakta comes to the point of prema, he does not actually attain this siddha-deha, but has to take repeated births in the material world. From Ujjvala-nilamani: “Those persons who are practicing raganuga-bhakti at the present time are on various stages of advancement such as nistha, ruci, asakti, etc. If they should at any future lifetime attain to pure love (prema) then they will become fully qualified to serve the Lord. It is only then that they will receive a body (svarupa siddhi) appropriate for rendering such service and will become actual associates of the Lord.” (quote from a Parivar)

Now the question is, if a devotee has received siddha pranali and DOES NOT attain prema in this life, what happens in the next life?

Will he receive siddha pranali again? The same guru with the same identity?

Taking another birth generally only happens if offense is involved. He may not need dikhsa again, or may have some shiksa, or just a formality of diksha like a family guru in India. His/her connection from past continues. Guru is a manifestation of Krsna. The Guru in nitya lila doesn't have any more material samskara, which means that he has no awareness of his disciples in the material world, so Krsna will send a guru with the same bhava. Prema can be achieved in one life, but rasa can only be experienced when there are past bhakti samskaras, in other words, most likely in Vrindavan, when one takes birth as gopi.

Prema in one life ... only with your blessings

I correct myself. It cannot be achieved in this material body, but after this life

Yeah, you are talking about Vastu Siddhi when the sadhaka born in Vraja.

But I am talking about being born again in this material world in another life. This "Siksa Guru in the same Bhava" will give the same siddha pranali from previous life (provided that the identity and the relation between guru/disciple in diksa patra chart is eternal)?

Suppose someone in a previous life leaves the body and had reached the stage of ruci. In this present life will need advance to asakti, bhava and prema meditating in his siddha deha, right?

<<Krsna will send us sadhu and he will explain. This things are individual.>>

Strange. Very strange.

For those in Manjari Bhava the only Guru that does not change, never ever, are Sri Rupa Manjari and Lalita Sakhi. Those in Manjari Bhava are followers of them.

Undoubtedly guru is essential. But are rupa manjari and lalita sakhi (our eternal gurus) that give us entry into the lila.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

We understand that bhakti develops over many lifetimes, so to come to the stage of realizing your desired relationship with Krsna implies that you have been practicing bhakti for many lifetimes because it is very rare that someone will attain that stage in the lifetime of their first exposure to bhakti.

That means that the seed of bhakti was planted many lifetimes ago by one’s diksa guru in that life. I’ve never read that one keeps getting a new seed planted in every life when they take diksa again to continue their journey.

Svaccha-suddha-rati:

When rati manifests many varieties because the practitioner associated with various types of devotees and performs various practices, it is called svaccha-rati (transparent). BRS, 2.5.12

When a devotee’s rati, like a clear crystal, becomes similar in form to that of the devotee to whom he is attached, it is called svaccha-rati. BRS, 2.5.13

From Jiva Gosvami’s Commentary:

This verse shows how devotee association acts as the seed of rati. Through association with various types of devotees, various types of sadhana which are like watering the seed will be performed.

…This [various types of sadhana] will produce various bhavas in the practicing devotee.

…The devotee’s rati, like a crystal, takes on a form similar to that of another devotee to whom he is attached.

…However, this svaccha-rati is included in suddha-rati because ***the particular tastes it manifests are temporary*** (rather than permanent as in priti or other forms of rati). This also agrees with the later statement in verse 21, which describes suddha-rati (which includes svaccha-rati) as being devoid of distinctive taste.

More from BRS:

These five types of rati [i.e., the rati or bhava associated with each of the five rasas] progressively become more blissful by increasing tastes. The particular taste arises in a devotee according to his previous experiences. BRS, 2.5.38

Jiva Gosvami’s Commentary:

But what determines who takes up which type of rati? Is it decided by having no impressions of a particular rati from previous lives, by having an impression of one type of rati from previous lives, or by having impressions of many types of rati?

In the first option – absence of impressions – rati cannot occur at all, because no taste could arise. In the case of persons having impressions of many types of rati, a particular rati could not manifest prominently because conflicting tastes would result in the improper manifestation of rasa (rasabhasa). Therefore, impressions of only one type carried from previous lives produce the specific taste.

Though not being in a position to perceive the depth of that rasa, one can confirm its identity by comparing scriptural descriptions of rasas with one’s own inclinations, and by inference through seeing how rasas, different from one’s own rasa, either nourish or fail to nourish the total ingredients.

Visvanatha Cakravarti’s commentary:

Among the various tastes such as sweet, sour and bitter, a particular person has a particular liking because of previous impressions. Because of impressions from a past life of a particular rasa, such as dasya, in this life also, the person has that taste alone and not others, by the mercy of a great devotee with a similar taste. This is the case for the two types of dasya and the other three higher rasas.

Are you sure?

You are right. I'm always feather my own nest.

<<All those questions are answered by the mercy of a Gurudeva, either inside or outside, because there is a connection. If you don't know who leads, who is our eternal Gurudeva and Ishtadeva, then you are still missing proper connection to be able to practice such a thing.Theoretical knowledge doesn't help.>>

Luckily I serve my gurudeva and he guides me explaining that my eternal gurudeva and istadeva are (in my particular case) sri rupa manjari and lalita sakhi. The diksa guru and siksa guru are essential, but the main guru meditation is on the forms of rupa manjari and lalita sakhi (in my particular case).

But the main point is that in the next life, if you can not attain prema, you will need to accept diksa again. Another guru. Another "siddha pranali". 

So when they say that once the diksa patra chart is established does not change ........ of course changes. What does not change is the main meditation in Sri Rupa Manjari and Sri Lalita Sakhi. [in my particular case]

<<The Guru in nitya lila doesn't have any more material samskara, which means that he has no awareness of his disciples in the material world, so Krsna will send a guru with the same bhava.>>

You see, will be another guru. Another siddha pranali.

Do you know any case in any parivara of devotee receiving diksa patra chart from previous life ?

What I mean is just that, if you not attain prema in this life, in the next life you will receive another diksa patra chart. Another guru identity.

In my case, I meditate in guru as manjari. But the details are not very essential. The essential details are from the forms of Sri Rupa Manjari and Sri Lalita Sakhi. (Other rasas subala for example)

please again:

"Until the bhakta comes to the point of prema, he does not actually attain this siddha-deha, but has to take repeated births in the material world. From Ujjvala-nilamani: “Those persons who are practicing raganuga-bhakti at the present time are on various stages of advancement such as nistha, ruci, asakti, etc. If they should at any future lifetime attain to pure love (prema) then they will become fully qualified to serve the Lord. It is only then that they will receive a body (svarupa siddhi) appropriate for rendering such service and will become actual associates of the Lord.” (quote from a Parivar)

Yes, and next life, change all the details

Actually details are very essential, details from Sri Rupa Manjari and Sri Lalita Sakhi are essential.

And you also meditate in guru as manjari.

Yes. Bhaktivinoda knew that for sure.

<<When you have such a connection you know it>> We are all strongly connected with Sri Rupa Manjari and Sri Lalita's Gana. And my guruveda is there.

If a devotee receives guru pranali in this life and attains prema in this very life, this is the relationship established. But if he/she does not reach prema in this life and has to be born again, will get another connection. The only thing that does not change are the details of Sri Rupa Manjari and Sri Lalita Sakhi (other Rasas the same).

Realization of svarup happens in bhava (svarupa siddhi). And if someone leaves the body on stage of ruci for example, born again and again siddha pranali.

If you dont get prema in this life, you must born again. Black and white.

We are talking about some devotee who leaves body in nistha or ruci. Next life will need meditate in siddha deha. Again another siddha pranali. Leave it alone bro !!!

We are talking about devotees initiated in Parivars that do not reach prema or even bhava

"Bhakti is not a matter of one life and is perfected in a course of various lifetimes. We get the siddha pranali from guru as mercy. But this siddha deha which is the bhava deha for sadhaka has to be nourished for getting the feelings and necessary realizations. Guru cannot give us feelings or realizations directly." (quote from a Parivar)

<<Intrestingly said "Yes, you have to be born again but it doesn't mean you need to take another siddha pranali." since it seems to imply that you need siddha pranali only if you did not receive it in a previous life.>>

<<Guru is a manifestation of Krsna. The Guru in nitya lila doesn't have any more material samskara, which means that he has no awareness of his disciples in the material world>>

In the next life you will receive another siddha pranali, because it will be another guru. YOUR ekadas bhava may even be the same, but the identity of the guru is another.

The only thing that never ever changes are the forms of Sri Rupa Manjari and Sri Lalita Sakhis (these gurudevis allow our entry into the lila. same other rasas).

"Asking whether in the next life, should the sadhaka fail to attain siddhi in this lifetime, he would attain a guru who would inform him of the same details of the svarupa as earlier, gurudeva said that we should not count on next lives, but focus on attaining siddhi in this lifetime, and that would be possible through the mercy of guru and vaishnavas, which is readily available for all who desire to embrace it....
...in any case, the Gita (6.44) says purvabhyasena tenaiva hriyate hyavasho'pi sah - "On the strength of his previous life's practise the sadhaka will automatically be attracted to the path again." I am pretty confident that this means "to his previous practise in all minute details". (quote from a Parivar)

You see, YOUR ekadas bhava may be the same...but guru will be another one. Another guru pranali.

So, the most important details to meditation is in the form of Sri Rupa Manjari and Sri Lalita Sakhi (These gurudevis are those who allow our entry into the lila (for those in that rasa).

<<Guru is a manifestation of Krsna. The Guru in nitya lila doesn't have any more material samskara, which means that he has no awareness of his disciples in the material world>>

Yes, everything is possible. We can born again in the same parivar and same siddha deha....but sri guru will be another one. Another Guru Pranali.

Again:

<<Guru is a manifestation of Krsna. The Guru in nitya lila doesn't have any more material samskara, which means that he has no awareness of his disciples in the material world>>

The only gurudevis that do not change ever are sri rupa manjari and sri lalita sakhi (others rasas same principle)

cakhu daan dilo je, janme janme prabhu se

Guru is one. But manifests in many forms.

<<And maybe we meet our own Gurudeva again...who knows for sure?>>

Complete speculation. Ridiculous.

<<Guru is a manifestation of Krsna. The Guru in nitya lila doesn't have any more material samskara, which means that he has no awareness of his disciples in the material world>>

How can someone say that meditating in siddha deha inspired by Nama Prabhu is speculation? Who says it does not know at what stage another one is singing and by the acintya sakti of nama prabhu this occurs.

If so, we can also say that many "gurus" that are not even on the highest stage "provide" siddha dehas to theirs followers without being in meditation with samasti guru. I know several cases.

Same parivar, NEW Guru pranali. Your guru will be another one, even if your parama guru had been your guru in previous life.

Of course parama guru, paratpara guru, paramesthi guru, etc are important, but guru is vital and the utmost importance in the life of disciple.

Disciple and GURU are serving side by side in yoga pitha seva and asta kala seva.

And I also won't discuss this any further with you.

And yes you said with sarcasm: "and just meditate on whatever manjari form they want to be, "creating" their own siddha deha."

Showing no respect

The only gurudevis that do not change ever are sri rupa manjari and sri lalita sakhi (others rasas same principle)

And I never EVER delete my posts.

In this life you meditate in the svarupa siddha of the Guru in this present life. If you attain prema in this life with this guru is with this guru you will serve forever. If you do not reach prema in this life, the next life you will have another guru. You will serve with the guru in nitya lila corresponding the life you have attained prema.

I wish this be the last life for everyone in here. But in general this leads many lives.

<<just meditate on whatever manjari form they want to be, "creating" their own siddha deha.">>

If it is not sarcasm, I do not know what sarcasm is.

<<He will meet another Gurudeva of the exact same parivar and again receive the exact same informations of this parivar.>>

Exact. Same parivar but ANOTHER Gurudeva.

<<Earlier in the discussion Nama Prabhu was much more important and solely responsible for revealing the siddha deha.>>

We must have a guru. Whitout guru we are zero. Guru, not parama guru. And if guru doesnt reveal siddha deha, nama prabhu will reveal.

Siddha deha can be given by diksa guru, siddha deha can be given by siksa guru, siddha deha can be given by ascended guru, siddha deha can be given by nitya parisada and siddha deha can be given by nama prabhu.

I cannot believe we are going to repeat everything we discuss earlier. That via maha mantra siddha deha can be revealed. It is confirmed by jiva goswami, visvanatha cakravarti, krsna das kaviraja and also by members of parivars satyanarayana, gadadharar pran, nitai (I will not mention Bhaktivinoda because he is a liar Hahahah). See, this is sarcasm. And I confirm that

<<How does it work for someone who has not realized his svarupa by Nama Prabhu in this life and needs to come again?

Will he not have another Gurudeva too?>>

Of course.

The only gurudevis that do not change ever are sri rupa manjari and sri lalita sakhi (others rasas same principle)

<<"How can someone say that meditating in siddha deha inspired by Nama Prabhu is speculation? "

Again, I never said this.

Without confirmation of a true sat Gurudeva it is complete mental speculation.>>

We start meditate in siddha deha when LOBHA awankens. Do not think that this siddha deha is "speculated". IT IS REAL. And of course you can confirm that with real sadhus. Suddha nama will reveal siddha deha (SVARUPA SIDDHI) IN BHAVA.

<<Even if everthing "pranali-wise" fails (NOT), Nama Prabhu will surely reveal to the sadhaka who needs to take birth again all details of his previous birth, including guru-manjari, param guru-manjari, etc...>>

Guru is a manifestation of Krsna. The Guru in nitya lila doesn't have any more material samskara, which means that he has no awareness of his disciples in the material world.

So, another life. Another Guru.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

Do you know any case in any parivara of devotee receiving diksa patra chart from previous life ? Or following the parama guru as guru ?

<<"Guru is a manifestation of Krsna. The Guru in nitya lila doesn't have any more material samskara, which means that he has no awareness of his disciples in the material world."

BHOGUS.>>

This quote is from

Of course you will for sure meet your gurudeva again. He will be your parama guru or paratpara guru, etc.

This is not may aim. Sidha Pranali is right as well via maha mantra. It is very simple. You dont accept via maha mantra It is ok.

<<I never wrote about anyone who received a "diksa patra" from previous life>>

You never wrote that. This is my question:

Do you know any case in any parivara of devotee receiving diksa patra chart from previous life ? Or following the parama guru as guru ?

Do you know any case in any parivara of devotee receiving diksa patra chart from previous life ? Or following the parama guru as guru ?

Do you know any case in any parivara of devotee receiving diksa patra chart from previous life ? Or following the parama guru as guru ?

Such a thing does not exist.

But the other way is also genuine.

Sri Nama Mahatmya - Saranagati - Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura:

isat vikasi’ punah, dekhay nija-rupa-guna,
citta hari’ loya krsna-pas

purna vikasita hoiya, braje more jaya loiya,
dekhay more swarupa-vilas

more siddha-deha diya, krsna-pase rakhe giya,
e dehera kore sarva-nas

"When the name is EVEN SLIGHTLY manifested He reveals His own divine form and qualities and reveals my own spiritual form and characteristics. It steals my mind and takes it to Krsna's side.

Being fully manifest, the holy name takes me to Vraja and reveals to me His own love dalliance.

He gives to me my own divine, eternal body, keeps me near Krsna and completely destroys this mortal frame of mine."

Even before suddha nama and of course confirmed by guru and sadhus.

"This human form of life is rare and it can award all the benefit of life. It is superior to all other forms of life, for having attained it, one may easily cross over the ocean of material existence. The human form of life is like a ship for crossing the material ocean. The Guru is the captain and the mercy of Krsna is the favorable wind that carries the ship safely across. One who fails to make use of the human form of life for crossing the ocean of birth and death is the killer of the self." (Bhag. 11.20.17)

My Guru can be prepared and expand himself to come to this material world rescue me. But why create such an inconvenience to our beloved Gurudeva?

If my Gurudeva make an arrangement for me to contact other Sat Gurus that are present in this material world in my next life I think it is less inconvenience to my Spiritual Master.

I would not tolerate knowing that my Guru had to come to this "miserable material world" (although the Guru is transcendental to miseries of this world), just for my sake.

And not only that, he would have to expand himself the number of all his disciples in this life and the next (This would not end. The Guru would have to expand until rescued all his disciples).

The Guru is committed to all his disciples. But does not have a monopoly on them and neither is attached in this way. If other Sat Gurus can guide them, the Guru will make this arrangement.

Guru is a Tattva (principle), not a person.

1 - Quote:

"We have two theories concerning the guru's part in revealing the particular form of the initiate's siddha-rupa.

One theory contend that the guru, by means of his meditative vision, has the ability to see which character in the eternal lila the initiate really is, essentially and at all times, though prior to initiation the person is unaware of the existence of this inner body. At the time of initiation, the guru reveales to the initiate the detailed form of his siddha-rupa as seen in the world of the lila by perfected meditators. The initiate then proceeds to execute performative acts which help him to discover this true
identity for himself.

The second theory, argues that at the time of initiation the guru assigns the initiate a siddha-rupa appropriate to his nature. According to this perspective, the guru does not discern who the disciple is; instead, the guru assigns the initiate an eternal body with which to play out a particular part in the eternal lila."
(O.B.L.Kapoor, "Sri Ramadasa Babaji" [Vrndavana: Sri Radha Govinda Press 1982] pp.114-15)

Quote:

I had some interesting discussions in this regard with some of the disciples of Sri Ananta Das Pandit during my recent visit to Radhakund. According to them (as they heard it from the Baba), the guru in his meditation, in his manjari-svarupa, approaches the samastiki-guru, from Whom she receives the details of the manjari-svarupa of the initiate, and then the guru conveys the message to the initiate upon returning to his sadhaka-awareness.

It was not clear though whether this svarupa-to-be-received is destined to this initiate from before, or whether it is given by the samastiki-guru to the vyasti-guru according to the inclination of the initiate.

It would naturally follow, though, that if a particular svarupa was previously destined to a particular person, there would be inclination accordingly in the initiate.

Perhaps this is a fusion of the two?

Jagat:

This is like any question of predestination and free will. If I am predestined to some particular form, i.e., if it is already existing and "waiting for me" as Kunja Bihari has it, then what is the place for free will, or individual likes and dislikes? I really don't see the conflict.

The real question is whether the sadhaka has any input into the matter. I think the answer to this is clearly yes. That's what Bhaktivinoda Thakur says in HNC, and that was Lalita Prasad Thakur's system also. He was more pleased by a disciple who knew what he wanted that by one who passively accepted whatever was given."

Even when a Guru in meditation sees the siddha deha of disciple, he sees how the disciple serves eternally. It's not that the Guru imposes a form of serving. He simply sees how the disciple serves. It has everything to do with the personal desire of each individual how he/she wants to serve. Actually we have almost no free will. Our free will is small and fast when we choose between Maya and Krsna. Once chosen Maya, we came under its strict laws. Once chosen Krsna, we are overwhelmed by love. Once the choice is made, as individual beings, however, we can choose. A very rough example. A person who smokes under the influence of material energy. She can choose which brand of cigarette smoking. Likewise, in devotional plan, a devotee can choose how to serve Krsna. We have already seen that in the same Parivar someone could serve in Lalita's Ghana, other in Indulekha's Ghana, etc. This is all determined by the individual ruci of each devotee who is confirmed by the Guru, Sadhus or Nama Prabhu. The association may determine which Rasa one will be attract. Once established Rasa due the association, Seva details are according to the individual taste of each devotee. The Guru only confirms and refines it.

2 - The Paddhati of Dhyanacandra does not specify that we must worship with all the details all members of the parampara. It speaks in general that we should meditate on the Manjari form of Guru, Parama Guru, etc. Any manual of Arcana establishes only preliminary worship of Guru. Not at all Parampara. Imagine offering 16 Upacaras for each member of Parampara !!!
Now imagine a Sadhaka in future generations who have to meditate on the form of all members of Pranali that will be at that time 100, 200 or more since golden age will last 10.000 years. A Diksa Patra with 500 members !!!

If all this information is given, it is ok. But the main meditation is in the form of Guru who can even be done without all the details.

An example of Manjari Gurudevi Dhyana:

"My Gurudevi Manjari is a juvenile and attractive Manjari. She is full of Radha Prema. My Sri Gurudevi Manjari is one of most intimate Radha's maidservants. She is always in Sri Radha Bhava. Srimati Radhika is her life and soul. My Gurudevi Manjari is serving under the supervision of Rupa Manjari. My Gurudevi Manjari lives because of Sri Radha. She is extremely blessed because she has got the most confidential seva of the Divine Couple."

In this way the Sadhaka can do Yogapitha Seva and Asta Kala Seva.

Jaya Radhe !!!

"Since we have never had a relationship with Krsna before, then how is it that the nitya-siddhas or one's guru knows our eternal svarupa, when it never existed before? How can your guru 'see' your siddha-deha if it has never existed and is only now beginning to unfold? "

From the verse of Jiva Goswami, we can clearly see that the siddha deha is eternal. He says that it is actually an "amsa", an expansion of Krishna.

These "amsas" illuminate the spiritual world.

"I had some interesting discussions in this regard with some of the disciples of Sri Ananta Das Pandit during my recent visit to Radhakund. According to them (as they heard it from the Baba), the guru in his meditation, in his manjari-svarupa, approaches the samastiki-guru, from Whom he receives the details of the manjari-svarupa of the initiate, and then the guru conveys the message to the initiate upon returning to his sadhaka-awareness.

It was not clear though whether this svarupa-to-be-received is destined to this initiate from before, or whether it is given by the samastiki-guru to the vyasti-guru according to the inclination of the initiate."

Like said before, our inclination for a certain bhava determines our bhava-deha...
My Gurudeva told me that a true sadguru never IMPOSES something on a sadhaka.

The sadhaka searches for a Gurudeva according to his/her spiritual desires.

Why would I approach my Gurudeva who practices manjari-bhava-sadhana for siddha pranali without having any greed for "becoming a manjari"?

Of course Sri Gurudeva sees and recognizes the greed of the sadhaka.
If I would love to be in Vaikuntha, I would have never met my Gurudeva.

But since the spiritual world is eternal and we are bound by the limitations of space and time, it is very difficult to understand these deep matters.

In Vyasadeva's Brahma-sutras with Baladeva Vidyabhusana's commentaries, the fourth chapter in section 4, deals with the nature of the jiva's svarupa and how the jiva acquires a spiritual body (or not for those who wish to merge into brahman). There it is stated that a liberated jiva can manifest a spiritual body by the power of its own will, ie: satya-sankalpa. In fact, the liberated jiva can manifest multiple bodies if it desires - even one thousand or more. No mention is made of pre-existing, non-functional siddha-dehas waiting to be inhabited.

"No mention is made of pre-existing, non-functional siddha-dehas waiting to be inhabited."

Thank you for mentioning this, Uttamasloka Dasa.

I know that this passage written by my param-gurudeva Sri Kunja Bihari das Babaji is difficult to feel "comfy" with.

I asked my Gurudeva what this means...since I couldn´t understand "inactive", "non-functioning".

He told me that here my param gurudeva wants to help us understand this very deep matter from OUR perspective as sadhakas on the way to perfection. So "inactive" from our point of view...
So that we can perfect our bhava and then BE these bodies.

Sometimes Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami and Srila Bhaktivinod Thakur did exactly the same. They too sometimes gave examples for our better understanding.

Since these siddha dehas are "bhava-dehas", it is our bhava, which we have perfected at one point, which "activates" (here also in a way "manifests") these forms which are awarded to us by Krishna.

I asked: "But what about in the meantime? What are these forms ( expansions of the Lord illuminating Goloka) doing during the time of my perfection...until I AM THAT form?

Gurudeva said that there is no "meantime" in Goloka Vrindavana. It is an eternal place with eternal time and nothing is missing there.

So from my uttterly limited perception I can never understand HOW KRISHNA AWARDS us a siddha deha.

What I can understand is that according to my spiritual bhava which I cultivate during the process of bhakti in anugatya of my Gurudeva, Krishna will award a suitable body to that bhava when I reach perfection.

Não. Estas aqui. Não estas lá. Se tiras 0,0000000000000001 de 1.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 não é nada. MAS TIRAS.

The follow guru and shastra procedure is troublesome, since if you do, the next day the risk is there that someone is going to quote another shastra or guru with a contradictory conclusion. Here with the creation of spiritual bodies vs. preexisting.

Now there is an obvious problem here - where there is birth, there is death. So if the spiritual body has a beginning, it has an end. Prabhupada solved that dilemma by saying that we already have a spiritual body, we just have forgotten it, it is sleeping, so we should go "back to godhead"
Modern non-Prabhupada devotees corner by saying their gurus gave them different origins of the soul. Unfortunately with their own problems.

When we get problems any way maybe due to materically biased thinking, what is right? Both, or none, or maybe it is even a wrong question?

I don't think you can say that spiritual bodies have a beginning, as they are composed of cit sakti and cit sakti is always existing. They manifest at a certain time, but what they are made from is always there. Unlike material bodies which manifest from material elements, they are unaffected by material time, so even though coming into manifestation at a certain time, they do not diminish or cease to exist under the influence of time. Neither do they manifest under the influence of time either- they manifest according to our desire, which manifests according to our bhakti. That happens at a certain time- but not due to time. The siddha deha manifests (fully) when the soul reaches perfection in sadhana.

How can we even try to understand the siddha-deha? It is a body made of “BHAVA” (spiritual emotions). Even the clothes we wear are symptoms of our bhava…
Right now, we cannot even imagine a body made of fire…what to speak of Lord Brahma´s body which is made of intelligence…

But this does not mean that we can foget it all…we can anyway never understand it. The meditation on the siddha-deha is useless…it is only my head-cinema producing a movie with me in a manjari-form.

No. This is not what the mahajanas teach us. All depends on our practice, on our consciousness and on our stage in bhakti.

Srila Narottam das Thakur sings:
sadhane ye dhana cai, siddha dehe taha pai,
pakkapakka matra se vicara
apakke sadhana riti, pakile se prema-bhakti,
bhakati lakshana tattva sara (56)

“The treasure I desire as a practitioner I will get when I attain my spiritual body; it’s just a question of being ripe or unripe. The ripe stage is the stage of pure loving devotion and the unripe stage is the stage of practice. That is the essential truth about devotional principles.”

So, we keep on practicing.

To think that “we as perfected jiva-souls” ENTER the spiritual world is also not a correct thinking pattern. It is not like we leave here and go there…and BAMM we appear in Goloka Vrindavana…
The spiritual world is eternal. There exists only ETERNAL PRESENCE.
It is not that 10 minutes ago, this liberated jiva was here in this world and then it entered the spiritual world.

The spiritual world is not a “geographical place” (neither is our tatastha-sakti by the way). It is not bound on time and space. It is a world of pure spiritual consciousness of existence.
Many people look up or wave to the sky when they talk about the spiritual world. But actually, it is RIGHT here…we are just not aware of it.
Already here our mind is defeated…

And to think that these spiritual forms are already there and man, what are they doing in the “meantime”…the mind bites its own tail…

THERE IS NO MEANTIME. There, in Goloka Vrindavana, is only NOW.

All is happening now. Ooooops…

Dr O.B.L Kapoor writes beautifully in ‘The Philosophy and Religion of Sri Caitanya’ p. 196-7:
“By constant meditation or smarana he [the sadhak] makes the whole of Vraja-lila live before him. He enters into that lila in his imagination and by serving Krsna, according to the particular bhAva or mode of bhakti adopted by him, lives in the ecstasy of that vicarious enjoyment. The imaginary transcendental body (antascintita siddha deha), however, is not wholly imaginary. It is a mental reflection of the transcendental body, which Bhagavan, out of His infinite kindness, imparts to the devotee. That the transcendental body is a gift of Bhagavan is corroborated by Bhag.Pur. 3.9.11, ‘yadyad dhiya, [in order to confer Your Grace on the devotees, You manifest Yourself in that very form they meditate upon You.]‘ Sri Visvanath Cakravarti, in his commentary, interprets the text to mean that Bhagavan imparts to the devotee a transcendental body exactly like the one which he imagines himself to possess and which is essential for the particular mode of bhakti practised by him, because He is bound to do so on account of His always being subservient to the devotees.
(…)

When the devotee is sufficiently advanced in devotion, he becomes free of the 5 kosa’s and realizes the spiritual body. The spiritual body is made of shuddha-sattva, the luminous, expressive and unfettered substance of the spiritual order. The imaginary spiritual body (antascintita siddha deha), which the devotee contemplates in raganuga-bhakti, is an imperfect replica of the siddha-deha he attains on fruition of his devotion.

Narottama Thakur says in Prema-bhakti-candrika 54-55, sadhane bhaviba jaha, that what the devotee desires and meditates upon in the stage of sadhana, he actually attains on the completion of sadhana. The imaginary or contemplated transcendental body therefore, is just the proper transcendental body in the making (pakvApakva mAtra ze bicAra)”

the body is not having a wet dream or is inactive. it is unmanifested in krsna.

Sri Sri Raga Vartma Candrika - Srila Visvanatha Cakravartipada - Dvitiya Prakasha (Second Diffusion)

1. Sri Shyamasundara is always so absorbed in His pastimes with the beautiful girls of Vraja who have accepted Cupid as their friend, that He is not aware of any loss, exhaustion, household duties, danger, fear, worry or defeat by His enemies. From all this we can understand that He has no chance to think of anyone else but Srimati Radharani and the gopis of Vraja, since He is bewildered by His loving pastimes with them. How will He then accept the service rendered to Him by the countless raganuga devotees who come to Him from different directions and from different countries? Who will listen to all the different prayers that are offered to Him? One may offer the solution that Krishna's expansion, the Supersoul who lives in everyone’s heart, listens, and that the expansion and the origin are actually one, but that will hurt the raganuga bhakta’s heart very much. What is then the solution?

The answer can be found in the words of Uddhava. He says: “O Lord! When You considered whether or not it was proper to kill Jarasandha and to go to the Rajasuya sacrifice You called me to You and said ‘O Uddhava! What should I do now?’ like a bewildered person. You bewildered me at that time, acting like an ignorant, yet omniscient man who needed advice from a counsellor, although You are not conditioned by time and space and You are full of causeless knowledge eternally.” But if someone will explain that in this case You seemed bewildered, but actually You weren’t, then that is also not right, because Your activities are without endeavour and Your birth is birthless — amidst all these words, this proposal is useless.

Therefore we should not explain it in the latter way. We must accept that just as Krishna is sometimes bewildered in His Dvaraka pastimes, although he is omniscient, similarly by His inconceivable potency He is sometimes omniscient in His Vrindavana pastimes, although He is bewildered. We must therefore accept the words of Bilvamangala Thakura in Krishna Karnamrita “in all His pastimes the Lord is simultaneously bewildered and omniscient.”