Aṣṭottara-Śata Blog: Nama occupies the highest position

From Hayasirsa Dasa: Actually, after the sacred greed (Lobha) has appeared in the heart, one becomes enlightened in different ways. We can get information about Siddha Deha from Guru (1), from a Raganuga devotee (2), and some, whose hearts have been purified by the practice of devotional service (Diksa Mantras), will have this knowledge directly revealed to them from within their hearts (3). VCT's Raga Vartma Candrika,
All that, before Suddha Nama Ruci.

Obviously it is essential to receive the Diksa Mantras from Guru.

BUT only in the level of RUCI we'll really chant Suddha Nama. Only in the final stages of the RUCI level and the beggining of ASAKTI we will realize Siddha Deha and reach Svarupa Siddhi.

The process of self realization in Kali Yuga is Nama Sankirtana. This is the process. This is our aim. To get SIDDHA NAMA.

But wich Nama? SUDDHA NAMA focused in a specific relantioship (Rasa).

Siddha Nama and Svarupa Siddhi come together

Note: SUDDHA Nama and SIDDHA Nama.

Suddha=pure
Siddha=perfect

"Will the Holy Name reveal to us our siddha deha?
SURE, WHY NOT?
If we are on that high level that we can talk with the Holy Name (the Name IS Krishna, remember?), of course the Name can tell us our siddha deha.
Fortunate are those who are on such a high level. But again, without the mercy of Sri Gurudeva, this will not be possible." ......

That were not my words .....

But the most important thing is with we agree on. You have received information about the siddha deha from a living guru .... Have you already have SIDDHA NAMA or SUDDHA NAMA ???

The concrete realization of the siddha deha (svarupa siddhi) only comes with SUDDHA NAMA and SIDDHA NAMA at the final stage of asakti and beginning of bhava.

We can write what we want. This is the reality for all of us. Without SIDDHA NAMA or SUDDHA NAMA no siddha deha (svarupa siddhi) .....

You see. Without SIDDHA NAMA ... you can have Siddha Deha. But you can not have SVARUPA SIDDHI

Right...."Will the Holy Name reveal to us our siddha deha?
SURE, WHY NOT?"

We have a lot of home work until reach Svarupa Siddhi at Bhava.
SIDDHA NAMA is required.

I meditate in my Gurudeva and all the Parampara as Kisori Manjaris and I didnt recieve Diksa Patra chart.

If you could see the most beautiful Kisori Manjari Svarupa of my Sri Gurudeva ... it's astonishing.

Ok, forget SIDDHA NAMA... but do not forget SUDDHA NAMA
Everyone here (with or without Diksa Patra chart) MUST reach SUDDHA NAMA in order to get Svarupa Siddhi at the stage of BHAVA.
Regarding the verse of VCT you already addmitted that is possible to get Siddha Deha via Maha Mantra. Enough and peace. Without SUDDHA NAMA we are not going anywhere.

" Thus some devotees attain knowledge about the feelings of Krsna and His Vraja-associates from the mouth of a guru, some from the mouth of a learned rāgānugā-devotee, and some, whose hearts have been purified by the practice of devotional service, will have this knowled¬ge directly revealed to them from within their hearts."

Assuming that the verse do not refer siddha deha. But it refers that via Maha Mantra as an option to know the feelings of Krsna and His Vraja associates.
Do you see the power of the Maha Mantra ???
And of course MAHA MANTRA Hare Krsna CAN reveal Siddha Deha as we agree.
DO YOU SEE the power of the Maha Mantra ???

In fact is the Maha Mantra Hare Krsna (Suddha Nama) that will reveal our spiritual form at Bhava and the spiritual form of Radha Krsna.

The Maha Mantra Hare Krsna is so powerful that can give us the KNOWLEDGE FOR RAGANUGA BHAKTI as one of the options of VCT's verse.
Haribol !!! Haribol !!! Haribol !!!
Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare
Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare

Question: Of course in agreement with you, there is a misunderstanding that raganuga bhakti can only be practised when ones reaches bhava or prema. In Raga Vartma Candrika, Srila Vishvanath Cakravarti established that the devotee on the path of raganuga advances from the platform of anartha nivritti. So, that means that even on this level one can practise it. You said: “Getting ekadasha bhava is one process of raganuga bhakti, but it is not the only way.” Please could you tell which other way/s you are referring to?

Answer: The other way is that it can also be revealed to the sadhaka by the grace of the Holy Name. In Bhakti Sandarbha, Sri Jiva Gosvami stresses the importance of nama-smarana. Then, when the heart is purified by the grace of nama, one is revealed guna, rupa and lila and one can do guna-smarana, rupa smarana and lila smarana. (Satyanarayana Babaji)

http://www.jiva.org/practices-of-raganuga-bhakti/

The aim is Avisranta Nama. Constantly chanting. 24 hours chanting. Very advanced Raganuga Sadhakas chant Maha Mantra and do Lila Smarana during all day. Please see Dandatmika Sutra by Krsna Das Tatapada.

Yes. Pancanga Bhakti. 5 Angas of Bhakti are very powerful. But Nama reigns as the supreme Anga. Jay Rasaraja Sri Krsna Jay Mahabhava Sri Radha !!!

Of the 64 forms of devotional service, Srila Rupa Goswami says that nine (sravanam, kirtanam, samaranam, etc) are the most important.

Then he says that five of these are more important. Pancanga Bhakti.

CC Madhya 22.129

sakala-sādhana-śreṣṭha ei pañca aṅga
kṛṣṇa-prema janmāya ei pāṅcera alpa saṅga

“These five limbs of devotional service are the best of all. Even a slight performance of these five awakens love for Kṛṣṇa."

1 - Sadhu Sanga, 2 - Bhagavata Sravana, 3 - Dhama Vasa, 4 - Sri Murti Seva, 5 - Nama Sankirtana.

CC Madhya 22.133

durūhādbhuta-vīrye ’smin
śraddhā dūre ’stu pañcake
yatra sv-alpo ’pi sambandhaḥ
sad-dhiyāṁ bhāva-janmane

"The power of these five principles is very wonderful and difficult to understand. Even without faith in them, a person who is offenseless can awaken his dormant love of Kṛṣṇa simply by being a little connected with them." This verse is also found in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu (1.2.238).

HOWEVER

In Bhakti Sandharba, Srila Jiva Goswamipada says that no form of Bhakti is complete without Sri Krsna Nama Sankirtana.

Nama occupies the highest position.

We do not use the Hare Krsna Maha Mantra and then discard it.

The Hare Krsna Maha Mantra is the beginning, middle and end.

Eternally with our dual identity (Kaisora in Gaura Lila and Kisori in Krsna Lila), we will be forever chanting the Hare Krsna Maha Mantra in the company of Sri Caitanya and His eternal associates in the eternal Navadvipa. And at the same time we will be eternally singing the Hare Krsna Maha Mantra in the eternal Goloka. For example, when the Sakhis and Manjaris are running different Sevas, they simultaneously sing the glories of Sri Sri Radha Krsna.

This Hare Krsna Maha Mantra came directly from the spirit world as confirmed by Srila Narottama Das Thakura's Dainya Bodhika:

(2)
golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma-sańkīrtana,
rati nā janmilo kene tāy
saḿsāra-biṣānale, dibā-niśi hiyā jwale,
jurāite nā koinu upāy

2) "The treasure of divine love in Goloka Vrndavana has descended as the congregational chanting of Lord Hari's holy names. Why did my attraction for that chanting never come about? Day and night my heart burns from the fire of the poison of worldliness, and I have not taken the means to relieve it."

As a matter of fact, Nama and Smaranan become one. Chanting and remembering executed at the same time.

In Sri Caitanya-bhagavata Adi-khanda 14.140, Lord Caitanya instructed Tapana Misra:

ratri-dina nama laya khaite suite
tanhara inahima vede mahi pare dite

"The Vedas are unable to fully describe the glories of one who chants the Hare Krsna Maha Mantra day and night, even while eating and sleeping."

From Rupa Goswami's Stava Mala:

(1)
nikhila-śruti-mauli-ratna-mālā-
dyuti-nīrājita-pāda-pańkajānta
ayi mukta-kulair upāsyamānaḿ
paritas tvāḿ hari-nāma saḿśrayāmi

1) "O Hari-nama! The tips of the toes of Your lotus feet are constantly being worshiped by the glowing radiance emanating from the string of gems known as the Upanisads, the crown jewels of all the Vedas. You are eternally adored by liberated souls, such as Narada and Sukadeva. O Hari-nama! I take complete shelter of You."

(3)
yad-ābhāso 'py udyan kavalita-bhava-dhvānta-vibhavo
dṛśaḿ tattvāndhānām api diśati bhakti-praṇayinīm
janas tasyodāttaḿ jagati bhagavan-nāma-taraṇe
kṛtī te nirvaktuḿ ka iha mahimānaḿ prabhavati

3) "O sun of the Holy Name, even the dim light of Your early dawn 'namabhasa' devours the power of the darkness of the material world and gives those who are blind to the truth the insight to follow the path of pure devotion to Krishna. What learned person in this world can possibly fully describe Your transcendental glories?"

(6)
vācyaḿ vācakam ity udeti bhavato nāma svarūpa-dvayaḿ
pūrvasmāt param eva hanta karuṇaḿ tatrāpi jānīmahe
yas tasmin vihitāparādha-nivahaḥ prāṇī samantād bhaved
āsyenedam upāsya so 'pi hi sadānandāmbudhau majjati

6) "O Holy Name, You are manifested in two forms: 1. the Supreme Person described by the Holy Name, and 2. the sound vibration of the Holy Name. We know that the second form is even more merciful than the first, because although a person may commit many offenses to Your first form, he will still plunge into an ocean of bliss by serving Your second with His voice."

We are eternally serving Sri Nama Prabhu. In the beginning, middle and end.

Now that we agree that Holy Name can reveal the Siddha Deha. When the Holy Name begins to reveal the Siddha Deha?

aparādha ghuci', śuddha nāme RUCI

Ruci here means taste...for the Holy Name (Suddha Nama) not taste in general. Of course there is no Siddha Deha mentioned in this sentence. But with SUDDHA NAMA RUCI everything is achieved.

"ruci as 6th stage of bhakti is different from nama ruci"... no.

From Rupa Goswami's Stava Mala:
(3)
yad-ābhāso 'py udyan kavalita-bhava-dhvānta-vibhavo
dṛśaḿ tattvāndhānām api diśati bhakti-praṇayinīm
janas tasyodāttaḿ jagati bhagavan-nāma-taraṇe
kṛtī te nirvaktuḿ ka iha mahimānaḿ prabhavati
3) "O sun of the Holy Name, even the dim light of Your early dawn 'namabhasa' devours the power of the darkness of the material world and gives those who are blind to the truth the insight to follow the path of pure devotion to Krishna. What learned person in this world can possibly fully describe Your transcendental glories?"

And again:
Question: Of course in agreement with you, there is a misunderstanding that raganuga bhakti can only be practised when ones reaches bhava or prema. In Raga Vartma Candrika, Srila Vishvanath Cakravarti established that the devotee on the path of raganuga advances from the platform of anartha nivritti. So, that means that even on this level one can practise it. You said: “Getting ekadasha bhava is one process of raganuga bhakti, but it is not the only way.” Please could you tell which other way/s you are referring to?
Answer: The other way is that it can also be revealed to the sadhaka by the grace of the Holy Name. In Bhakti Sandarbha, Sri Jiva Gosvami stresses the importance of nama-smarana. Then, when the heart is purified by the grace of nama, one is revealed guna, rupa and lila and one can do guna-smarana, rupa smarana and lila smarana. (Satyanarayana Babaji)

If from Nama Bhasa we can get this, what to expect from Suddha Nama then ?

In fact is the Maha Mantra Hare Krsna (Suddha Nama) that will reveal our spiritual form (Siddha Svarupa) at Bhava and the spiritual form of Radha Krsna.

We are not Kripa Siddhas. We are Sadhana Siddhas. Trying to. Kripa Siddhi is very, very, very rare. Please see Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu.

It is us, ie: the devotee, ie: the jiva, whose identity transforms from material sefl-identification to spiritual identification. The siddha-deha is the suitable form for participating in the lila, at first during meditations and later directly when it is fully revealed at the stage of bhava. Until then our spiritual identity gradually manifests throughout the final stages of progress towards bhava.
But that identity manifests from our heart because it IS us - it doesn't come from somewhere else. The body, ie: siddha-deha is an element of that identity, ie: the outward manifestation which comes from the svarupa-sakti.
Viśvanātha Cakravartī eloquently summarizes the entire sequence of progressive development on this path, by showing how at each stage, the transformation and manifestation of your spiritual identity gradually increases, while simultaneously, the material conditioning and false identity decreases correspondingly:
Ahankara (false ego) is of two types:
(1) consciousness of I – ahanta
(2) consciousness of mine – mamatā
By jñāna these two are destroyed and liberation is attained. By directing these two towards the body (I am this body), a house (this is my house), and so on, bondage results.
I am a follower of the Lord. I am the servant of the Lord. The Lord with His associates, an ocean of sweetness with His form, qualities and pastimes, is to be served by me. If one thinks in this way, identifying oneself as the Lord’s servant and making the Lord along with His associates the object of one’s possession, it is called prema. Prema is in this way distinct from both bondage and liberation, and is properly called the crown jewel of all human goals.
There is a sequence in this…
When the materialistic aspect of ahanta and mamatā is extremely deep, one remains fixed in the cycle of birth and death.
When by good fortune, a particle of faith is born (śraddhā) and one thinks of becoming a Vaiṣṇava and serving the Lord, the materialistic aspect becomes slightly spiritualized (gandha) and the jīva becomes qualified for devotional service (bhakti).
At the stage of sādhu saṅga, the spiritualization becomes more condensed and his material attachments are ātyantikī (thorough).
At the stage of unsteady bhajana-kriyā (sādhana-bhakti), the spiritualization of I and mine is specific, localized in one place, whereas the material aspect is still in full force (pūrna).
At the stage of niṣṭhā, spiritualization becomes detectable in many places, and the
materialistic influence is still prominent (prāyikī).
At the stage of ruci, spiritualization of I and mine becomes dominant, nearing completion (prāyikī) and the materialistic concept of I and mine becomes localized in certain issues.
At the stage of āsakti, the spiritual aspect of I and mine becomes complete (pūrna) and the material aspect becomes a trace (gandha).
At the stage of bhāva, the spiritual aspect becomes thorough (ātyantikī) and the material aspect becomes like an empty shadow.
At the stage of prema, the spiritual aspect becomes extremely intense (param-ātyantikī) and the material aspect is completely absent. MK, 8.12

We may receive information of our Siddha Deha by the grace (Kripa) of the Guru in the early stages. But the realization of this Siddha Deha (Svarupa Siddhi) only comes with Suddha Nama in advanced stage of Bhava.
Actually we are Sadhana Siddhas because Kripa will come only for those who have reached the first stages of Prema.

Rupa Goswami's Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu:
sādhanābhiniveśena kṛṣṇa-tad-bhaktayos tathā |
prasādenātidhanyānāṁ bhāvo dvedhābhijāyate |
ādyas tu prāyikas tatra dvitīyo viralodayaḥ ||1.3.6||
“Bhāva appears in very fortunate persons in two ways: by
absorption in sādhana, or by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa or His devotee.
Its appearance by sādhana is normal; its appearance by mercy is
very rare.”

It is important to understand that realization of the siddha-deha is not the goal of our sadhana and bhajana. The goal is prema, but even more specifically, it is prema in the context of our desired relationship with Krsna, ie: dasya, sakhya, vatsalya or madhurya. It is the relationship that should be the focus of our bhajana, not the siddha-deha because it is the "relationship" which is the foundation of that prema, not the siddha-deha.
We engage in sadhana with our sadhaka-deha, ie: our physical senses, with the self-conception that "I am an eternal servant of Krsna and dasa anudasa, anudasa..." That helps us diminish the external material self-conception, ie: our false ego, and focus on the spiritual purpose of our endeavors.
Similarly, when you have realized or awakened the type of relationship you desire to have with Krsna, and you have been blessed with the lobha to pursue that relationship, you then begin to develop your eternal self-conception, ie: I am a cowherd boy or sakhi, etc. The ekadasa-bhavas are the template by which we further define our self-conception, ie: our identity in the lila.
In order to develop one's desired relationship one must have an appropriate self-conception which allows one to integrate into the lila via the chosen Vraja-vasi whose raga we follow. That identity also requires a suitable form, ie: the siddha-deha, which is necessary because you cannot meditate on your desired relationship, services and participation in the context of your material identity. Therefore, we utilize the mentally conceived siddha-deha as defined by its ekadasa-bhavas, all focused on our desired "relationship" and the prema that arises from all of that.
Asakti, ie: deep attachment to Krsna, is only possible in the context of a relationship, otherwise, what is the basis for that attachment? That deep attachment leads to the stage of bhava, where Krsna finally reveals Himself to us and awards us our desired relationship, along with its prema and a suitable siddha-deha. Thus, we attain svarupa-siddhi.

People who say that those who receive siddha pranali (diksa patra) are sahajiyas ARE EXTREMELY wrong.

And people who say that those who do not receive siddha pranali can not meditate on the siddha deha and in the manjari form of guru varga (or any rasa) ARE EXTREMELY wrong. The only thing that will vary is the amount of details during meditation.

Someone by the Krpa of Sri Guru can get the information of Siddha Deha (Diksa Patra) in the early stages. But the realization of this Siddha Deha (Svarupa Siddhi) will come only in the level of Bhava with Suddha Nama. And Vastu Siddhi when you born in Vraja.

And undoubtedly Sri Guru will be with us, inspiring us along the way.

No doubt we can practice Raganuga Bhakti before the 6th stage of "Ruci". Lobha can awaken at any time. Well before the 6th sage of "Ruci".
However, according to Jiva Goswami, before the 6th stage of progression the devotee is an AJATA Ruci Raganuga Bhakta.
The 6th stage indicates the passage from Ajata to Jata.
"aparadha ghuci' suddha name RUCI"
Here RUCI refers to JATA Ruci Raganuga Bhaktas.
Only with Suddha Nama with the blessings of Sri Guru, a Raganuga Sadhaka can move from Ajata to Jata, and thus achieve SVARUPA SIDDHI later in Bhava.

purna-vikasita hana, braje more jaya lana
dekhaya more svarupa-vilasa
more siddha-deha diya, krsna-pase rakhe giya
e dehera kare sarba-nasa
"Now blossoming fully, the Prema flower of Sri Nama takes me to Vraja, and reveals to me the pastimes of His own lovedalliance. Nama gives me my own Siddha Deha (Svarupa Siddhi), keeps me by the side of Krsna, and then He completely destroys everything related to this mortal frame of mine."
(Jagadananda Pandita's Prema Vivarta)

Always the same. When a scripture does not sit well is alleged to be false, corrupted or interpolated.

But it is only ..... alleged.

Well, at least not all of the traditional Parivaras's Acaryas have the same opinion. Some have the utmost respect for Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura.

kali-kale nama-rupe krsna-avatara
nama haite haya sarva-jagat-nistara
nama vinu kali-kale nahi ara dharma
sarva-mantra-sara nama, ei sastra-marma
In the age of Kali, Krsna advents Himself in the form of the holy name. By
the holy name, the entire universe is delivered. There is no other dharma in the age of Kali. The holy name of Krsna is the essence of all mantras and the purport of all revealed scriptures. (Cc. Adi 17.22 and 7.74)

akrstih krta-cetasam sumahatam-muccatanam camhasam
acandalamamukaloka-sulabho vasyas ca moksasriyah
no diksam na ca daksinam na ca purascaryam managiksate
mantro'yam rasana sprg eva phalati sri krsna namatmakah
The holy name of Krsna is an attractive feature for many saintly, liberal
people. It is the annihilator of all sinful reactions and is so powerful that save
for the dumb who cannot chant it, it is readily, available to everyone, including the lowest type of man, the candala. The holy name of Krsna is controller of the opulence of liberation, and it is identical with Sri Krsna. Simply by touching the holy name with one's tongue, immediate effects are produced. Chanting the holy name does not depend on initiation, pious activities, or the purascarya regulative principles generally observed before initiation. The holy name does not wait for all these activities. It is self-sufficient. (Padyavali 29, Rupa Gosvami)

krsna-mantra haite habe samsara-mocana
krsna-nama haite pabe krsnera carana
Through the gayatri mantra one attains liberation from material existence.
Through the holy name one attains the lotus feet of Krsna. (Cc. Adi 7.73)

The Hare Krsna Maha Mantra, the Diksa Mantras (Sri Guru), Dhama Vasa, Sadhu Sanga, Murti Seva and Sri Bhagavat Sravana (Srimad Bhagavatam) all work together to help the devotee to quickly attain perfection.

Ok, Prema Vivarta was "counterfeited" by BVT (Oh my God). But in relation to Sandarbhas of Jiva Goswami we all agree that they are authentic.
"Siddha Deha can also be revealed to the sadhaka by the grace of the Holy Name. In Bhakti Sandarbha, Sri Jiva Gosvami stresses the importance of nama-smarana. Then, when heart is purified by the grace of nama, one is revealed guna, rupa and lila and one can do guna-smarana, rupa smarana and lila smarana.
If name reveals guna rupa and lila of Krsna, it also reveals that of the sadhaka. That is implicitly understood (vyanjana vritti). That revelation will happen thru guru, and in absence of guru it can happen directly. Otherwise how does the guru know about the svarupa of the disciple. It is the Lord who reveals it to him or her. Our philosophy is non-dualistic, i.e. there is only one ultimate tattva and that is Krishna. He is the supreme controller, He is the fountainhead of everything. Everything flows from Him." (Satyanarayana Babaji)

You see, the "counterfeited" verse of the "counterfeited" Prema Vivarta is fully supported by Jiva Goswami.

And we have to repeat:
People who say that those who receive siddha pranali (diksa patra) are sahajiyas ARE EXTREMELY wrong.

Sri Sri Gaura Govinda Lilamrita Gutika Sutra - by Sri Sakhicharan das Babaji Maharaja

Sri Navadvipa Dhama :
Sriman Mahaprabhu and His devotees sit on the jeweled throne in the Yogapitha-lotus. The sadhaka dasa is absorbed in bhavavesha in the own siddha deha and on the indication of Sri Gurudeva he will do Yogapitha-seva and mantra smarana.

Sri Vraja Dhama :
After this Sri Radha-Krishna and Their sakhis sit on the jeweled throne on the lotus of the Yogapitha. On the indication of Gurudevi the sadhaka dasi practises the Yogapitha seva and her mantra-smarana. After this everyone goes to his/her own home and takes rest. Sadhaka dasi then renders carana seva (foot service) to Radha.

Thus ends the Six danda’s Pratah lila sutra

From Srila Dhyanachandra Goswami´s Paddhati:
Sri Guru Smarana and Atma Dhyana
(45-47)
"Before meditating on all the bhaktas, first guru-smarana should be done as described in the Sanat-kumara Samhita: The guru is as radiant and cooling as 10,000 moons. His beautiful hands display the mudras of benediction and awarding fearlessness. He wears white cloth and is decorated with candana and a transcendental white garland. He has a very happy face, is peaceful and delights in his bhajana. He has a sac-cid-ananda form, readily gives his blessings, and has lotus eyes. He is very handsome, with two arms and a golden complexion, and is radiant with youth (kaisora). He very faithfully follows his guru-gana, beginning with Srila Rupa Gosvami, and is very eager to serve the Lord. In this way, with a pure mind, the sadhaka shall meditate on his gurudeva."
(48)
"The sadhaka shall meditate on himself as wearing tilaka on his forehead, a fragrant garland around his neck, with beautiful holy names and prasadi-candana on his chest. On his body he always wears a fine, new white cloth. In this pure transcendental body he shall approach the lotus feet of his guru, very eager for service."
Our eternal service in eternal Navadvipa.

Meditation on the form of Gurudevi in Krsna Lila is also wonderful.
The Manjari Svarupa of Sri Gurudeva is in the camp of Lalita Sakhi serving under Sri Rupa Manjari. Gurudevi is expertly performing Nikunja Seva to assist Radha Madhava in Their intimate love affairs...............................

Brothers and sisters, we can not force anyone to accept certain scriptures. It's okay. We simply have to speak from the scriptures that we all accept and agree.
And in Bhakti Sandarbha, Jiva Goswami explains that Sri Nama Prabhu reveals the wonderful form of Krsna and as a consequence the wonderful form of the Sadhaka.

Sri Bhakti Sandarbha by Srila Jiva Goswami:
Anuccheda 256
3 - Although it is possible for one to jump over the many stages of spiritual advancement and attain perfection in a single moment, still, the general path is that first one hears the Lord's holy name, and in that way one's heart becomes purified. When one's heart is purified, by hearing about the Lord's transcendental form the Lord's form appears in one's heart. When the Lord's form appears in this way, the Lord's transcendental qualities are then clearly manifested.
4 - As one makes spiritual advancement and the Lord's pastimes become manifest, the names, forms, and qualities of the Lord's personal associates are also manifest...
Anuccheda 263
1 - The result obtained by chanting the Lord's holy name is described in the following words (Shrimad Bhagavatam 11.2.40):
2 - "When a person is actually advanced and takes pleasure in chanting the holy name of the Lord, who is very dear to him, he is agitated and loudly chants the holy name. He also laughs, cries, becomes agitated and chants just like a madman, not caring for outsiders."
Anuccheda 264
1 - In another verse of Shrimad Bhagavatam (6.2.11) it is said:
"By following the Vedic ritualistic ceremonies or undergoing atonement, sinful men do not become as purified as by chanting once the holy name of Lord Hari. Although ritualistic atonement may free one from sinful reactions, it does not awaken devotional service, unlike the chanting of the Lord's names, which reminds one of the Lord's fame, qualities, attributes, pastimes and paraphernalia."

By the Krpa of Sri Guru someone can receive information about Siddha Deha even in the early stage of Bhajana Kriya. But the full realization of Siddha Deha (Svarupa Siddhi) will come with the help and inspiration of Sri Guru only at the stage of Bhava being revealed by Suddha Nama.

So:
aparādha ghuci', śuddha nāme RUCI

Meditation on the Siddha Deha begins, by the grace and with the guide of Sri Nama Prabhu or Sri Guru (or both), when Lobha awakens. This may be well before the 6th stage of Ruci.

At the 6th stage of Ruci, when begins Suddha Nama also begins the realization and the true identification of the Siddha Deha (Svarupa Siddhi), that matures in Asakti and is fully realized in Bhava.

"Srila Krsna das Kaviraja Goswami has described in his commentary to Krsna Karnamrta (Saranga Rangada Tika) that both Siddha Pranali and chanting the Holy Name are bona fide, but of the two, he prefers the process of taking the name of Krsna."
What is the opinion of Traditional Gaudiyas about this Tika?

!!!!!! It's confirmed. On the Tika, KDKG only speak about siddha deha but not about siddha pranali. !!!!!!!!

On this class Mahanidhi Swami corroborates that there are many ways.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKSYlVUzzyc

In his Sāraṅga Raṅgadā-ṭīkā to Kṛṣṇa Karṇāmṛta (3), Śrīla Kṛṣṇadās Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, rāgānugā mārge anutpanna rati sādhaka bhaktair api svepsita siddha dehaṁ manasi parikalpya - "On the rāgānugā-path even a sādhaka bhakta who has no rati yet can think of his own desired siddha deha." Then he continues: jāta ratīnāṁ tu svayam eva tad deha sphūrteḥ. “When rati arises, then that body will be AUTOMATICALLY revealed."

Jay Jay Jay Sri Radhe !!!

"In Vrindavana, Sri Krishna would personally give Bilvamangala Prasadam and lead him to a safe resting place. At first Lilasuka didn't know the identity of this sweet Vrajavasi boy. Then one day Bihari Lal played his captivating flute for the blind man. Suddenly, Bilvamangala became mad with desire to behold the beautiful sweet form of Syamasundara. Realizing that this "Vrajavasi boy" was actually the Lord of his life and the love of his heart, he reached out to touch Krishna. Playful Gopala touched Bilvamangala's hand, laughed lovingly, and ran away. Singing, Bilvamangala said, "You can run away from my hand, but You can never leave my heart."

We may conclude that Bilvamangala meditated on his Siddha Deha without receiving Siddha Pranali, as all the devotees did before this method was introduced (Bilvamangala appeared much before), leaving open the two possibilites as authentic.

If Somagiri belonged to Visnuswami's line and was the Diksa Guru of Bilvamangala...is there Siddha Pranali practice in other Vaisnava Sampradayas ? Before and nowadays ? ............................
"In his Sāraṅga Raṅgadā-ṭīkā to Kṛṣṇa Karṇāmṛta (3), Śrīla Kṛṣṇadās Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, rāgānugā mārge anutpanna rati sādhaka bhaktair api svepsita siddha dehaṁ manasi parikalpya - "On the rāgānugā-path even a sādhaka bhakta who has no rati yet can think of his own desired siddha deha." Then he continues: jāta ratīnāṁ tu svayam eva tad deha sphūrteḥ. “When rati arises, then that body will be AUTOMATICALLY revealed."

My Sri Gurudeva has said:

"The word parikalpya is most significant in this verse and it means everything for the devotees who do not undergo siddha pranali diksa. Parikalpya means to design, manufacture or create. This means a raganugiya sadhaka with greed for vraj bhakti in the mood of the damsels of vraj may create and devise HIS OWN siddha deha, without having received it via pranali system. Then continue to meditate on that self designed siddha deha and render mental seva to Yugala thru asta yama. Then after many life times that rare state of asakti preceding bhava may come and one may get a vision or revelation of that siddha deha."

1 - Meditate on his Siddha Deha even before the heart is completely pure has always been very clear.

2 - But this is the most relevant part: Bilvamangala did not accept Siddha Pranali of Somagiri, yet meditated in his Siddha Deha. There was not the Siddha Pranali practice previously nor in current days in other Vaishnava lines.
In the Patala Khanda of the Padma Purana we find descriptions of how the practitioners who have take shelter of Madhurya Rasa, meditate on their Siddha Deha which is suitable for mentally rendered devotional service, without receiving Siddha Pranali.
Padma Purana - Patala Kandha:
"Ashokamalini to Narada: You had desired to see the girl who would become the consort of Lord Krishna. Please listen now as I describe to you how it came to be that various fortunate souls were born in the land of Vraja, as daughters of the cowherd men.There was a sage known as Chandraprabha, who had a charming son named Chitradhvaja. This boy was a great devotee of Lord Krsna from childhood. One day, the boy went to Lord Vishnu's temple. While there, he thought as follows: "How shall I worship Lord Krsna, who fascinates the cowherd girls of Vrindavana? Indeed, the Lord is always engaged in pastimes with them, in the forest and by the side of the River Yamuna."
That night, the boy had a dream. He saw before him the beautiful form of Lord Krsna. It was a Deity made of stone, and was placed upon a golden throne. The Lord was standing in His charming three fold bending posture, and He was playing His flute. On His two sides, the Lord was being served by two of the best of gopis. Indeed, infatuated with love, the gopis were embracing and kissing their Lord. Lord Krsna then said to the gopi on His right, "Lotus-eyed one, you will manifest a wonderful female form, who is very bashful in behavior. Touched by the lustre of your body, that form will resemble yours. That gopi then approached Chitradhvaja, so that the lustre of her body filled his body. From the lustre of her breasts, two stout breasts were produced. From the lustre of her hips, charming round hips became manifested. In this way, a female form came into being, decorated with garlands and ornaments. It was as if from one lamp, another lamp was lit. The gopi took that girl's hand and led her to Govinda's side, saying, "My Lord, this is Your female servant. Kindly tell her what service she should perform.The gopi then named her Chitrakala and instructed, "Always stay near the Lord and sing in accompaniment to His flute. Chitrakala touched the lotus feet of the Lord, taking the dust and placing it upon her head. She then began to sing, giving pleasure to Lord Krsna and the gopis. The Lord then lovingly embraced her. At this point in the dream, Chitradhvaja woke up. Remembering his dream and the sweetness of Lord Krsna, he wept. From that time on, being determined to think of Krsna only, he gave up all material enjoyment and remained silent, even when addressed by his father. In this way, he remained at home for one month. After that, he went to the forest and practiced austerities that were difficult to perform. Some time later on, he gave up his material body and was then born as Chitrakala, the daughter of the cowherd, Viragupta."
Chitradhvaja did not receive Siddha Pranali.
No one should think that this is nothing more than imagination. Sri Guru can reveal the Siddha Deha or Sri Nama Prabhu with intense greed of the Sadhaka can reveal the Siddha Deha.
"Who can measure or judge ones personal realization and greed and inner Sphurtis in this matter?" (Unknown source)
Who?

3 - My Sri Gurudeva does not go into endless discussions.

4 - "The problem ONLY arises when we claim the monopoly on everything."

Exactly for this reason, we may conclude that Bilvamangala meditated on his Siddha Deha without receiving Siddha Pranali, as all the devotees did before this method was introduced (Bilvamangala appeared much before), leaving open the TWO possibilites as authentic.

"these personalities u quoted who did not take siddha pranali are not Gaudiyas."
Srila Krsna Das Kaviraj Goswami IS Gaudiya.
In his Sāraṅga Raṅgadā-ṭīkā to Kṛṣṇa Karṇāmṛta (3), Śrīla Kṛṣṇadās Kavirāja Gosvāmī says, rāgānugā mārge anutpanna rati sādhaka bhaktair api svepsita siddha dehaṁ manasi parikalpya - "On the rāgānugā-path even a sādhaka bhakta who has no rati yet can think of his own desired siddha deha." Then he continues: jāta ratīnāṁ tu svayam eva tad deha sphūrteḥ. “When rati arises, then that body will be AUTOMATICALLY revealed." No mention of Siddha Pranali.

Sri Jiva Goswami in his Bhakti Sandarbha states that Sri Nama Prabhu reveals the Rupa of Krsna and the Sadhaka. Sri Jiva Goswami IS Gaudiya. No mention of Siddha Pranali.

Whatever the Goswamis selected from other sampradayas we follow, we don't study independently...exactly.

Satyanarayana Babaji corroborates this. He IS Gaudiya.

"Siddha Deha can also be revealed to the sadhaka by the grace of the Holy Name. In Bhakti Sandarbha, Sri Jiva Gosvami stresses the importance of nama-smarana. Then, when heart is purified by the grace of nama, one is revealed guna, rupa and lila and one can do guna-smarana, rupa smarana and lila smarana.

If name reveals guna rupa and lila of Krsna, it also reveals that of the sadhaka. That is implicitly understood (vyanjana vritti). That revelation will happen thru guru, and in absence of guru it can happen directly. Otherwise how does the guru know about the svarupa of the disciple. It is the Lord who reveals it to him or her. Our philosophy is non-dualistic, i.e. there is only one ultimate tattva and that is Krishna. He is the supreme controller, He is the fountainhead of everything. Everything flows from Him." (Satyanarayana Babaji)

That is called nistha or loyalty...exactly.

"how do you know about your siddha deha so that you can meditate on it before Suddha Nama"
Because of INTENSE Lobha. Even Nama Bhasa has immense power. And with Suddha Nama in Bhava the Siddha Deha is revealed.

Chitradhvaja was not Gaudiya. Right. Follows the same principle.

And by the way, is Srila Bhaktivinoda Gaudiya or what? Hahaha!!!

The whole point is that you do not accept that the TWO possibilities are authentic. And this is why you continue answering this post.

This pranali chart proves what Hayasirsa is saying- that both processes are bonafide, and both are Gaudiya.
>>"how do you know about your siddha deha so that you can meditate on it before Suddha Nama"
Because of INTENSE Lobha. Even Nama Bhasa has immense power. And with Suddha Nama in Bhava the Siddha Deha is revealed.
Jaya! Joy!

But still I wonder why not many followers of BVT are going the "chart"-way.
Not meaning this as a challenge.
Anyway, it's very nice to talk about what we will do when we get to bhava- the important thing now is to saturate our consciousness with external and internal service and meditations. We will not and should nto wait for a chart, if we have lobha. There is no sastric injunction for a chart, and it was not recommended by SP and BSST. The important thing is to know which rasa we are most attracted to, and which Vraja associate within that rasa, as we need to petition them for mercy and protection on the path. Then we need to render them manasa seva. If we have a chart, it would be helpful, no doubt, as would be siddha pranali initiation, but it is not an absolute requirement- lobha is.

Therefore, the need is to absorb ourselves in the moods of the Vraja inhabitants, and accompany that with nama kirtan, devoid as much as possible of aparadha and anartha. Then with intensity, we perform our bhajan. We take the menifold ways that Krsna brings us mercy- listening as much as possible to the sound vibration of pure devotees and reading their books.

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sábado, 11 de outubro de 2014

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