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terça-feira, 16 de abril de 2024

Jiva Fall - Bhagavatam friendship is between the Supersoul and the Jiva

The commentaries of Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti and Srila Jiva Gosvami of this verse of SB 4.28.52-54 make it very clear that the friendship is between the Supersoul and the Jiva and not between Krsna and the Jiva in the spiritual world.

Yes, Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān are qualitatively one and the same, vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam (SB 1.2.11)
But giving up friendship with the Supersoul in this material world and giving up friendship with Krsna in a perfect Rasa in Goloka are completely different things.
Since when have we fallen away from the heart from the side of Paramatma? The story evidently speaks of a person who once was engaged in spiritual practices here in this material world, consulting with Paramatma in the heart, but was eventually swayed by the ways of the material world, turning his face away from the Lord. Hence the "old friend who was once consulted" and the "two swans on a lake".

svasthah pradhanikavesa rahitah san tad vyabhicarena purvam isvarakhya hamsa bahirmukhataya nastam tirohitam smrtim janasi api kim sakhayam mam iti api smarasi catmanam avijnata sakham ityatra purvoktam sakhyanusandhanam punar apa iti. atra punah sabdena smrti sabdena tad vismrter nasadi khandanam vivaksitam kintu anadyavrtasyapi sakhyasya svabhavikatvad anaditvam ityeva krta hanya krtabhyagama prasangat

"Being svasthah means 'being free from the possession of material nature" tad vyabhicarena means 'not devoted to the swan called isvara'. Because of this the memory was lost - nastam. Punar apa means 'regained the consciousness of friends' as was stated in words such as janasi kim sakhayam mam (4.28.52). Here the use of the words 'punah' and smrtih are used to indicate the disappearance or destruction of forgetfulness. But that forgetfulness is certainly beginningless although the friendship, which is also covered without beginning, is natural."
(Srila Jiva Gosvami Krama Sandarbha Tika on Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.54)

"On the words hitva mam, giving up My company, srstyarambhe pracina-karma-vasad evety arthah, You gave up My company at the beginning of creation because of your past Karma. On the words sahasra parivatsaran, living together for many thousands of years, sahasram parivatsaran mahapralayo yavad ity artha, until the end of the great dissolution the Jiva remains within the Lord for this period." (Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura Sarartha Darsini Tika on Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.54)

From this it is very clear that the friendship is between the Supersoul and the Jiva and that their living together is during the annihilation. There is absolutely nothing here about the Jiva being with Krsna in Goloka.

Letter to: Jagadisa
Los Angeles
25 April, 1970
70-04-25
My Dear Jagadisa,
Please accept my blessings. I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 20th April, 1970, along with a Canadian money order for $278, and thank you very much for this.
I am very glad to know that your Maha-sankirtana. with coordination of Buffalo are so successful. Please continue this program as you have suggested and surely Krishna will see that your more vigorous efforts to spread His movement are successful more and more.
Regarding Brijbasi posters, just take out pictures portraying Krishna with cows, with Gopis—just Krishna pictures, no pictures of demigods. Those pictures are alright.
Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at any time, so there is always the chance of falling down by misuse of one's independence. But those who are firmly fixed up in devotional service to Krsna are making proper use of their independence and so they do not fall down.
Regarding your second question, have the conditioned souls ever seen Krsna? Were they with the Lord before being conditioned by the desire to lord it over material nature? Yes, the conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus they were with Krsna before being conditioned. Just as the child must have seen his father because the father places the child in the womb of the mother, similarly each soul has seen Krsna or the Supreme Father. But at that time the conditioned souls are resting in the condition called susupti which is exactly deep sleep without dream, or anesthetized state, therefore they do not remember being with Krsna when they wake up in the material world and become engaged in material affairs. I hope this will satisfy your questions.
Please offer my blessings to your good wife, Laksmimoni, and to all the other girls and boys there.
Hope this will meet you in good health.

Your ever well-wisher,
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

This is the complete letter from Srila Prabhupada. 

It's great !!!

This letter from Srila Prabhupada is phenomenal. It is conclusive.
To the first question, Srila Prabhupada replies that Krsna's eternal associates and those who attain this position never misuse their little independence.

Brilliant !!!

For the second question, if the jiva was with Krsna before being conditioned, Prabhupada answers that yes, he was, with Maha Visnu in Susupti. Prabhupada does not say that he was in Goloka or Vaikuntha. Clearer than that, impossible.
The Sastras say nothing, nothing, nothing about what the Baddha Jiva's condition was before the Susupti unless the jiva was in the previous cycle of creation. No Sastra says anything that the Jiva was in Vaikuntha or Goloka. And Prabhupada here gives the conclusion of the Sastras.

This letter is phenomenal.

Srila Prabhupada Ki Jaya!!!

In another letter, Prabhupada says:

“Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal Brahman or Brahmajyoti), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that, he was with Krishna." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Melbourne Australia)

Brahma Sayujya is to be merged in the impersonal aspect. It has nothing to do with Sususpti.

Even before he fell from the Brahma Sayujya, he was with Krsna (Maha Visnu) in Susupti.

Also:

"Formerly we were with Krisna in His lila, or sport..." and "We too have fallen from Vaikuntha millions and millions of years ago."

Of course. With Krsna in His lila as Maha Visnu is Vaikuntha.

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May 13 1975 Perth

"Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I remember once I heard a tape where you told us that we should not try to read the books of previous ācāryas.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Amogha: That we should not try to read Bhaktivinoda’s books or earlier books of other, all ācāryas. So I was just wondering…

Prabhupāda: I never said that.

Amogha: You didn’t say that? Oh.

Prabhupāda: How is that?

Amogha: I thought you said that we should not read the previous ācāryas’ books.

Prabhupāda: No, you should read.

Amogha: We should.

Prabhupāda: It is misunderstanding.

Paramahaṁsa: I think maybe he was thinking that there was some things about some of the Gauḍīya Maṭha books.

Prabhupāda: Maybe"

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Adi-lila : Adi 5: 203

"By the mercy of Sanātana Gosvāmī I have learned the final conclusions of devotional service, and by the grace of Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī I have tasted the highest nectar of devotional service."

PURPORT..."Śrī Sanātana Gosvāmī Prabhu, the teacher of the science of devotional service, wrote several books, of which the Bṛhad-bhāgavatāmṛta is very famous; anyone who wants to know about the subject matter of devotees, devotional service and Kṛṣṇa must read this book."

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