Dhāmeśvar Mahāprabhu Dās Prabhupād apparently differed from Viśvanātha regarding the qualification to practice rāgānuga-sādhana-bhakti. The Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu (1.2.291) says that a person with a strong desire (lubdhaḥ) to obtain a mood similar to that of the rāgātmika devotees of Vṛndāvana is qualified to practice rāgānuga-sādhana-bhakti. Viśvanātha echoed the verse in his commentary, saying that “He who is greedy… is qualified.” Prabhupāda, however, raised the qualification. His mission was to spread the teachings of Chaitanya outside of India, a mission which, although prophesized by Chaitanya and other masters of the Chaitanya-Vaiṣṇava tradition, was never accomplished before Prabhupāda. This means that Prabhupāda’s audience was much different than that of Jīva Goswāmī and Viśvanātha. His audience was, for the most part, completely new to the Vedic scripture and bhakti. So before releasing Chaitanya’s unique and esoteric method of rāgānuga-sādhana-bhakti, it was necessary to prepare them and eliminate any potential corruptions to the traditional devotional path. When Prabhupāda therefore explained this verse (1.2.292) he wrote that “Only after the stage of liberation from material contamination can one actually aspire to follow in the footsteps of the devotees in Vṛndāvana.” (1970) Prabhupāda forbid practicing rāgānuga-sādhana-bhakti before the stage of anartha-nivṛtti, or the stage when one still acts upon desires for “unwanted habits”. Rāgānuga is a type of sādhana or practice, and according to Viśvanātha in his Madhurya-Kadambini, one is not absolutely free of material contamination until the stage of perfection (prema). Therefore, when Prabhupād said not to practice rāgānuga-sādhana-bhakti before complete purity, he meant that a qualified practitioner of rāgānuga-sādhana-bhakti does not act upon desires for “unwanted habits”, although they are present, but rather, that he or she is fixed in behavior ordained by bhakti scriptures and saints (niṣṭha). Once Prabhupād said that “Vaidhī-bhakti, that is apprenticeship. Real bhakti, parā-bhakti, that is rāgānuga-bhakti.” This is a strong statement, but not a point which Prabhupād emphasized in general. This shows that he expected Westerners to practice rāgānuga-sādhana-bhakti, but only after much education, practice, and purification.
Gosto · Responder · 11/9 às 22:52
Prahladesh Dasa Adhikari Uttamasloka Dasa, I am pretty sure that everyone in this forum have received the necessary education, practice and purification to start practicing rāgānuga-sādhana-bhakti. like emoticon
Gosto · Responder · 12/9 às 1:05 · Editado
Dhāmeśvar Mahāprabhu Dās Except me.
Gosto · Responder · 12/9 às 1:23
Prahladesh Dasa Adhikari
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Uttamasloka Dasa Prahladesh Dasa Adhikari:
It is essential that everyone who is serious about attaining prema should learn the facts about raganuga-bhakti and what the qualifications are to begin practicing it. But it takes more than just the knowledge. You have to have realized what type of relationship you want to have with Krsna. If that hasn't happened yet, the one is not qualified to begin raganuga-bhakti, even if they understand it in theory.
When it is said that greed is the qualification, it really means that you have realized what kind of relationship you want and which Vraja-vasi you want to follow. Then you have to have an intense desire (greed) to attain that relationship. Without that, one is not qualified to begin the practice. From Jaiva-dharma:
Babaji: It is auspicious that a person in whose heart such rāga has not arisen should strive to cultivate such bhakti by behaving according to vidhi (the rules and regulations of śāstra). The principles at work in vaidhī-bhakti are fear, respect and reverence, whereas the only principle at work in rāgātmikā-bhakti is lobha, or greed, in relation to Śrī Kṛṣṇa’s līlā.
Vrajanātha: Who has the adhikāra (qualification) for rāgamayī bhakti?
Bābājī: Vaidhī-śraddhā bestows the adhikāra for vaidhī-bhakti, and similarly, lobhamayī śraddhā (faith imbued with greed for Kṛṣṇa’s vraja-līlā) bestows the adhikāra for rāgamayī bhakti. The bhāva of the vraja-vāsīs towards Kṛṣṇa is the supreme example of rāgātmikā-bhakti. One who has the great fortune to have greed (lobha) to obtain the same bhāva (sentiment ) as the vraja-vāsīs have towards Kṛṣṇa has the adhikāra for rāgānugā-bhakti.
Vrajanātha: What are the symptoms of such lobha?
Bābājī: When one hears about the intensely sweet bhāvas of the vraja-vāsīs, one’s intelligence (buddhi-apekṣā) begins to consider how one may enter into those dealings. That desire (apekṣā) is the symptom that lobha has awakened.
A person who has the adhikāra for vaidhī-bhakti tests everything on the platform of intelligence, knowledge of śāstra, and reasoning; and when he hears kṛṣṇa-kathā, he only accepts it if these three support it. However, there is no such consideration in rāga-mārga, for intelligence, knowledge of śāstra, and reasoning are not desired on this path.
All that is needed is the greed for the sentiments of the vraja-vāsīs: “What are the sweet bhāvas of the vraja-vāsīs towards Kṛṣṇa? Is it possible for me to obtain such bhāvas? How can this be obtained?” This intense yearning is the symptom of greed, and one who does not have it does not have the adhikāra for rāgānugā-bhakti. This you should understand. JD, Chapter 21
Não gosto · Responder · 2 · 12/9 às 2:38 · Editado
Prahladesh Dasa Adhikari Many thanks Prabhu Uttamasloka Dasa. Yes, that is clear. The problem is that when those with genuine qualification to practice Raganuga Sadhana are suppressed, condemned and even in some cases persecuted.
Gosto · Responder · 1 · 12/9 às 11:10 · Editado
Uttamasloka Dasa respondeu · 1 resposta
Prahladesh Dasa Adhikari For example, in this forum, so I can see, they are all initiated devotees. If some did not awaken greed, specifically lobhamayī śraddhā, no problem. Nobody is forced to anything.
But the "information" of the details of Rasa Tattva should be disseminated. And when I say details are not details of Lila, because this is personal and intimate, but general details of Rasa Tattva.
Where is the seminar on Iskcon about the second part of the Nectar of Devotion with commentary of the Acaryas?
No one says anything about it !!!
An example, Sri Gaudiya Kantahara:
http://www.bvml.org/SGK/09.html
How is it possible any devotee claim to be no education regarding this topic?
It is there in the Nectar of Devotion, CC, the Teachings of Lord Chaitanya and other books and instructions of Srila Prabhupada.
Devotees chanting Hare Krsna for 10, 20, 35 years don't have practice and purification?
Gosto · Responder · 12/9 às 12:36 · Editado
Uttamasloka Dasa respondeu · 1 resposta
Prahladesh Dasa Adhikari Where in Iskcon is the seminar about Jaiva Dharma, which Prabhupada wanted his followers to study?
Where in Iskcon is the seminar about the book of Uttamasloka Dasa Prabhu?
Gosto · Responder · 2 · 12/9 às 12:33
Uttamasloka Dasa respondeu · 1 resposta
Prahladesh Dasa Adhikari At the time when Prabhupada came to the West, his followers knew nothing, but nothing at all, about the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition.
Today is completely different. Any Bhakta has access to all the Vedic tradition and the tradition of Bhakti. The audience today is quite different.
Gosto · Responder · 1 · 12/9 às 12:43
Prahladesh Dasa Adhikari For God's sake! Open, open, open the floodgates and let the nectar flow.
Gosto · Responder · 1 · 12/9 às 12:46
Uttamasloka Dasa My book was the first hole in the gates. grin emoticon
Não gosto · Responder · 1 · 12/9 às 18:00
Prahladesh Dasa Adhikari
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Prahladesh Dasa Adhikari = Prabhupāda forbid practicing rāgānuga-sādhana-bhakti before the stage of anartha-nivṛtti =
"Hansadutta: So Prabhupada, a neophyte devotee, he may think it might be very nice to be Krishna’s friend, but he may actually be a blade of grass and he’ll be fully satisfied when he comes to that stage?
Prabhupada: No. If he thinks like that, then he should cultivate that knowledge in that way. Yes. That is described in The Nectar of Devotion and Teachings of Lord Caitanya.
Hansadutta: But that may not be his actual position. It may be something else?
Prabhupada: No. But when, at the time of devotional service, if such impetus comes, that means he has got such relation. It is to be developed. That’s all. That means the actual relationship with Krishna is coming out gradually. It is being developed. So one has to develop it, following the footsteps of the Krishna’s friends in Vrindavana. These are described here.
Hansadutta: Suppose someone is satisfied simply being related with the spiritual master.
Prabhupada: That is everyone’s business. Everyone’s business. That is not a particular taste. That is the duty of all devotees."
Prabhupada DID NOT forbid practicing rāgānuga-sādhana-bhakti before the stage of anartha-nivṛtti.
He simply pointed out that before the stage of anartha-nivrtti the practice of raganuga-sadhana-bhakti is not intense (Ajata Ruci Raganuga) and that the intensive practice begins after anartha-nivrtti (Jata Ruci Raganuga).
Raganuga Sadhana Bhakti begins when Lobha awakes !!!
This can be even in Bhajana Kriya. And can even come from previous lives !!!
Niscala: It's not that Srila Prabhupada wanted to raise the bar- that would not be possible anyway, as the guru cannot contradict what is in the sastra. Neither did make it harder to begin raganuga- his ardent hope was that his disciples reach this platform.His cautions should be seen as adjustment to time, place and circumstance. A parent may caution a child to be wary of strangers, fire, etc, saying they are dangerous, where in reality the fire is useful and many strangers are friendly- which the child will find out in time. It should be remembered that SP was with us only 12 years, so that makes all his disciples very young and immature during the whole of his directly instructive period. They were mostly babies, without even very strong faith what to speak of realizations. He had to encourage and caution them, and like a mother exaggerating the dangers of strangers to her child, some exeggeration was used, but the actual qualification of raganuga is in the sastra, and that is never changed. It begins from the point of lobha to attain the mood of a ragatmika braja vasi.
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El Bhajana personal y la relacion (Rasa) personal de cada devot@ es eso mismo ... personal. Y cada devot@ sabrá CUANDO Lobha (genuina ANSIA) tenga despertado.
Krsna propicia de acuerdo a la inclinacion del devot@. Pues ESO, si el devot@ no demuenstra ninguna inclinacion, Krsna no propicia NADA.
No hay que esperar estar completamente libre de deseos materiales para empezar a tener deseos ESPIRITUALES grin emoticon
Todos los Acaryas prescriben que no debemos revelar nuestro Bhajana personal. Eso es algo intimo.
BUT the "information" of the details of Rasa Tattva should be disseminated. And when I say details are not details of Lila, because this is personal and intimate, but general details of Rasa Tattva.
It is there in the Nectar of Devotion, Caitanya Caritamrta, the Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Krsna Book and other books and instructions of Srila Prabhupada.
